I looked at the speakers you recommended, and not only do they look out of my price range, but I live in a small apartment. The people across from me would probably complain. I'm sure it would sound incredible. (If the volume isn't loud on fine speakers, can you still hear the difference in the sound?)

Linz: Your Onkyo is the best product you could have bought for the money. A very commendable choice. My main point was simply to suggest that buying a sub-woofer in due course would be a less satisfactory thing to do than to upgrade the speakers you already have. If you bought a sub-woofer, your neighbours would definitely be very likely to hear it, as it's low frequencies that penetrate walls, floors, ceilings. You can't stop it no matter you do, unless you move to Fort Knox.

So, I would stick to what you have and forget about a sub-woofer. When you can consider an upgrade, you might go for something like: Wharfedale Diamond II, a Rotel amp, Cambridge Audio 640 CD player, decent cable and interconnect. If you can afford it, go an extra bit on the speakers for the Monitor Audio RS1. The latter is what I have in my study, and they are really nice. I'm so used to them now, and can listen all day without any kind of tiring. Something like this set-up should keep you perfectly happy for many years.

It's best to read some mags first. The best one is the "What Hi-Fi?" - do you get this in USA? It's the "annual awards" one in October each year where they select the best buys in different price ranges, that's a good read. You don't need to be any kind of technical boffin to understand it. Most people I know who love music (of whatever type) have a strong interest in the hi-fi end of it too.

It's also best to go to a proper hi-fi retailer and get them to demonstrate 3 variants around this sort of overall price range. They will do it provided they know you are serious. These guys usually know what they are talking about. Just ask them to suggest two variants to your choice, so it's all ready for a comparative demo. Take a friend with you. On speakers, watch out for the slow bass I was talking about, as some quite expensive speakers can be a bit slow. For classical music, avoid NAD amps. Rotel are excellent and nice for classical. The best shop assistants will keep quiet and just let you comment and ask questions. If you feel they are being pushy, walk! They should simply help you decide what's best for you based on your views.

It's great getting it all home, wiring it up and luxuriating in it all. Remember that speakers take about 50-100 hours to warm up. The extra quality is definitely worth it. And you don't need it loud at all. I seldom have mine turned up.


Topaz

Try it before you purchase, a sub can destroy Classical Music, The most important is the mid range,
also a good set of head phones gives fantastic detail.


Topaz, the bane of my life are cars and neighbours with subs playing rock etc, drives you up the wall,
During the 2nd WW, a device “probably a super Sub” was tried out on the troops and they were blasted with this sound, I wont go into the details but they all needed new underpants in just a few seconds.

Andante: I know all about noisy neighbours. I've had a few. They ought to make it a criminal offence with minimum penalties of 5 years locked up somewhere. Instead, all you get are press announcements every few years that the authorities have been given new "powers" or whatever, but nothing ever happens. Is it the same in your country? Direct complaints to noisy neighbours normally make things worse; you risk making it more difficult to sell your home because any such disputes have to be notified (at least in UK law) to prospective buyers. The only solution is to move, and to be very careful next time. I never trust what people say about their motives for selling. I always suspect it's the result of some neighbour dispute. So I just smile at them, hang around a bit, come back later, and I'm usually right. There's usually something like low-flying aircfraft, junior on his recorder, amateur rock bands practising, Listz's Totentanz blaring out, car DIY, house DIY. At times I regret the inventions of Faraday, Marconi, Logie Baird, the CD, hammers, chisels, power tools etc. When I win the Euro Lottery, it won't just be a Porsche on my list; I'll be looking for a remote cliff-top mansion somewhere. The only snag is I'll need an orchestra. No problem. I think I know one not a million miles from here!


Topaz

Topaz, No matter where you move to you are still at the mercy of new neighbour, all houses should have sound proofing, by law, and very stiff penalties, prison, heavy fines, even death if all else fails LOL
I live in the country, where the loudest regular noise are the birds in the morning, I have neighbours about a doz within a 1k radius and believe me when they have a party [luckily not often] it stands out like a sore thumb, against a background of silence. I really must do something about those blasted birds.

Hmmm ... just noticed this sub-forum - [senior moment]

My listening system is a mixture of components ... all hand picked one at a time after many hours driving the store managers completely nuts.

Receiver: Sony STR-DE725
Speakers: KLH 9154's (20-20kHz)
CD Player: Technics DL-PD887 MASH
LP Turntable: Aiwa PS-E860U (single play)

OF course, the TV, VHS & DVD units are integrated into this sound system for enhanced listening pleasure for movies and classical simulcasts.

I have old Labtec speakers and an old Labtec subwoofer. Normally I have $20 Sony headphones. Behold, the sound system of a broke Jewish teenager!

When I get a job next year, after I upgrade my computer's RAM and processor, I'm going to spend two entire paychecks on upping my sound system. Beethoven and the 1812 Overture need a subwoofer the size of Laos.

__________________
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Abducted by a French marquis!
Though loss of honor was a wrench
Just think how it's improved her French.

Azathoth, be very, very careful, a sub can ruin a Hi Fi.

Don't hold out much hope. CDs have to conform to the "red book standard". The relevant bit of that standard is that the CD audio bandwidth was set to be between 20Hz and 20kHz.

The original Telarc LP of the 1812 contained frequencies down to 6Hz (yes, six) which cannot be reproduced on a CD. Anyone who has seen that LP will remember the sudden expansion of groove land where the cannons start and the modulation in the groove! The problem was that few of the upper-hi-fi cartridges could negotiate the thing so you needed a Shure M75 or similar. The M75 at 2.5g could play most things!

Can you hear the 6Hz? Nope but with the right speakers you can FEEL the thing, being harmonically related to what's going on above! It's the same with the deepest organ notes.

Telarc reissued the CD but stuck to the red book. Min 20Hz. It's far from the best recording of the 1812 but is a grand noise all the same!

I've noticed a few CDs that push the lower freq limit lower so evidently this standard's been adjusted or isn't too rigid. However, it interferes with the residual DC (voltage) detection/correction if it goes too low.

[eidt]By the way, the room acoustic/size comes into the equation of the lowest frequency that can be reproduced in a room.

It's worst when someone buys a subwoofer that doesn't match the main speakers. It's the crossover point and slope, the roll-off of lower frequencies in the main speaker and that of the top cut in the sub. They have to match in such a way that the overall frequency curve should be flat across the whole range. This ideal is rarely met even in compatible/matched sets but when they don't match you either get a gap or an overlap unless you're plain lucky. It's noticeable. Some subwoofers (I understand) allow control over the upper rolloff, frequency and slope but then you run into the problem of phase because of the filter circuitry.
it might be cheaper to get a main speaker that produces the range you want, remembering that CDs only (officially) go down to 20Hz and few domestic rooms can actually reproduce those frequencies - at least not with standard speaker designs.

So if you're tempted to buy a subwoofer, try to get one designed to supplement the main speaker, same manufacturer, etc.

Yes, but badly. I presume you mean the M75 EJ.

Hi, by way of introduction this is my main hi-fi system:

Digital Front End: MERIDIAN 506 20-BIT CD PLAYER (Redbook)
Pre Amplifier: AUDIOLAB 8000Q PRE-AMP
Amplification: BRYSTON 4B-ST (Pro) POWER AMP
Speaker System: AUDIO VECTOR 5 (F3 LYD) SPEAKERS (spiked onto hardwood floorboards)
Interconnects: Chord company (hand-made by their designer)
System Rack: Target (spiked onto hardwood floorboards)
Music Storage System: My own hand-built shelving
Other Accessories: Some power conditioning, purely to prevent spiking

I also have a suround sound system (Kenwood/Pioneer/Mission/Mordant-Short) but it is only used for a/v and never for music.
I also have a third system (Marantz CD-63SE, Arcam Alpha 6 PLus, SonyTC-K511S Dolby-S Cassette Deck and Pioneer F55-L tuner) currently speaker-less.

I have no interest in mp3 or any of it's variants and do not listen to music on the move or on my pc (other than a bit of net radio). I used to have a Linn LP12 but sold it, being an avid hater of vinyl (not the sound but all other aspects).
I have a relatively large CD collection, currently catalogued on Excel. Most of it is progressive rock/folk (see my RYM homepage) but I have a small (400+) collection of classical and opera.

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No - it's neighbours that should be banned!

Gooday Inominate,

You are obviously a dedicated Hi Fi Nut, and you must have deep pockets with all those systems lol, I see you are an ex engineer, does that mean you are retired now?
It is also refreshing to see you do not use surround or mp3 or the internet for your music, a man of good taste, you also have the same tape deck as I have which enforces your very good taste. Our musical appreciation does go down different paths but so what.

Ex - as in redundant, so not retired as such. Bored with IT more to the point.

I must admit that the tape deck has not been used for a few years, I only bought it to recird tapes for the car and then I changed cars and it had a CD player in it! Ah well.

I am serious about sound and the main system is all I wanted a rig to be. Audio nirvana at last you might say. It only took 30 odd years.

How's the country coping with the All-Blacks defeat? I hear all are in mourning.

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