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Thread: my new "classical" cd...

  1. #1
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    Default my new "classical" cd...

    Hey - Love this forum! I'm a total classical enthusiast with season tx to the Milwaukee Symphony. I am the drummer/songwriter in the band Tourniquet. I just released my solo drumming album called IN THE SHADOW OF THE MASTERS - here's a couple tracks.... hope you enjoy them!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaJfFTbadKg

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3IxNy4QIa4

    http://tourniquet.bandcamp.com/album...of-the-masters

  2. #2
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    Meretricious blasphemy.

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    REAL drummers eschew this kind of shallow, pointless, gratuitously noisy showing off. There's a phrase "less is more"; not one you have come across, evidently!

    Tsk, tsk, tsk!

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    Thanks for the comments. Just FYI – I am an avid classical enthusiast – not just a casual fan who’s faves are Pachelbel’s Canon and Mozart's eine kleine nachtmusik. I only played aggressively on this because this is an aggressive wild Chopin Etude. My goal was to match the intensity of the piece. Now if you feel a drum set should never be incorporated into classical music, I respect that.
    I do have a long history in drumming with treating the drums as a musical instrument – not just a noisy timekeeper. I have been blessed in the music industry as others have recognized that. The album is full of sections where there is no drumming at all to let the music breathe – plus many sections of quiet drumming, like the Barrios guitar piece on YouTube.
    I have also written more than 60 songs – every note, every harmony - with my band Tourniquet. This includes parts for violin and cello. Our band has been described as “Beethoven Meets Frankenstein”, which is endearing to our fans but maybe not on a classical forum! I have the utmost respect for the composers I love, which are many – I apologize for offending anyone – thanks for checking it out anyways!

  5. #5
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    My goal was to match the intensity of the piece.
    You failed to do it - your playing totally missed romantic expression of this music. Wild doesn't equal primitive.

    Besides, why are you playing with recording instead of real pianist (correct me if I'm wrong)? No cooperation between real musicans = no good effects.

    Uhm, and did I mention that solo piano music of this quality can be only ruined with addition of rock drummer?

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    Even as a drummer, I gotta agree with the others - it's not just blind aggression, there's so much more to the music than that. It's not anything against you, just the piano has the potential for so much more expressiveness than a drum kit...someone banging over it kinda loses the point.

    So nice drum kit, good recording quality, great drumming, but not a fan of drumming along to classical music.

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    This version of the etude – volume wise – stays within a very narrow range. There are slight volume nuances to the piano track, and they are followed on drums very closely. There is also ”relative volume” issues depending on where on the piano the piece is at – midrange keys “sound” slightly louder than the lower keys for example. It’s not just the variance in how hard a drum or cymbal is struck. It is also which drum or cymbal is being struck at any given second. The lows of the piano are matched with like lower toms, etc. I suspect only drummers – and not just any drummers – could recognize this.

    Like all the music on the CD, I hear and know every single note of every track. It may sound to you like just bashing, but to those that can get past the notion of drumming to classical pieces, it’s very musical. I’m certainly not suggesting it’s for everyone though. If you want a simple clear-cut example of following nuances, I also did The Overture to the Marriage of Figaro. As you can hear, there are loud parts, quiet parts, and parts where I felt there should be no drumming to let the music come through. Also, on the Barrios youTube track, I used special drumsticks that are much quieter and give a different sound that fits better with the classical guitar. The guitarist on that is Denis Azabagic, who has heard the final version and really enjoyed it… He’s a world class guitarist if you are possibly unaware of him.

    BTW - I have heard several other drummers release tracks of “drumming to classical music” and was myself not too thrilled. I could tell immediately they did not have a real understanding of the music and were not hardcore classical aficionados in any way.

    The one comment that I can truly appreciate is “not a fan of drumming along to classical music” – that makes sense and as I said before – I respect that. It is interesting for me to hear how others react to this and I enjoy reading ALL the comments!

    FIGARO - http://tourniquet.bandcamp.com/track...iage-of-figaro

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    Senior Member Rasa's Avatar
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    Since aparently the discussion in the other thread stopped short, copypasta

    My goal was to match the intensity of the piece.
    I'm afraid that from a pianistic perspective, you're not even close. This an étude of quite high technical difficulty. Often enough you match the pianists subdivision on drums, which is very fast 16th notes. Except the pianist has to play different keys, have enourmous finger strenght and control to give an accent on every 1st of 4, control the movements of his arm, master the jumps, have a pin-point pivot (dim 7 progressions) and so on and so on. On top of mastering the technical aspects, it still comes to taking all those aspect and mold them into musical phrases, and THEN playing it with intensity.

    I guess that while I recognise the effort, it doesn't in any way match up to what the track you're playing to is doing.

    Now if you feel a drum set should never be incorporated into classical music, I respect that.
    I also gandered a listen to your other pieces, such as the one where you drum along with Beethoven's 5th Finale.

    I don't think what you do is incorporating the drums into the music. A classical composer puts a lot of thought in effort in the structure of themes, melodic developement andsoforth. A big part of the work is thinking of orchestral colours. While doing this, the composer does incorporate percussions, fitting with the style of the period or his own tastes. Percussions are alreay part of the compositional consideration of the composer.

    The way you present the incoporation of novel percussions into an old work, seems to me as though you're using the classical work as a mere metronome, and some indication as when to change what percussion you're using at the time.

    It may sound to you like just bashing, but to those that can get past the notion of drumming to classical pieces, it’s very musical.
    Not from my point of view. It's anti-musical and shows a disregard for the effort the composer puts into a piece. It's not because what you do is difficult or well executed that it's well done. Just think of all preformers who insist on playing the etude from this post at massive speeds.
    Last edited by Rasa; Oct-21-2010 at 19:47.

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    Senior Member Chris's Avatar
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    It's like seeing a piece of fine antique furniture covered with plastic laminate

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    I have sat front row center (actually about 3 seats left of center for the best view of the pianist and their hands) for so many piano concerts I have lost track. Andre Watts, Emanuel Ax, Joyce Yang, Sa Chen, Pogorelich (in his prime), Garrick Olson, Lang Lang, Kissin, etc. Plus I have lots of DVD’s of Pollini, Gould, on and on. Your description of just part of what goes into playing a piece like the Chopin Etude on piano is excellent and something I totally understood and greatly appreciate. What I must say is there are, so far, few (none?) here that are willing to understand there are some similar difficulties to “banging away on the drums”. Fortunately, in the drumming world, people have recognized that I treat the drums as a musical instrument and not just a noisy timekeeper.

    Drumming, like most things in life, is very easy to be mediocre at. However, to play at a high level is totally different. Piano and drums have a few things in common – the biggest one is “disassociation”. You know the old joke about walking and chewing gum at the same time? Well, high-level drumming involves an extreme version of that. Like learning piano – you have to train your hands to play separate parts or you will never be able to play Liszt, Rach, etc. Have a look at the video again – if you can stand it! – and notice right from the start the right hand. The 64 notes go by in a hurry, but as they do, I am playing “ghost strokes” which are accents at about one quarter the volume. They add a subtle dimension to the drumming. Meanwhile the left hand is playing something quite different with every other stroke accented. Add not one, but both feet to the mix often playing two different things and blend it all together. Then choose in a millisecond which of the 15 things in front of you is best to strike. If this were posted on a jazz site or drumming site – everyone would go “ya, we already know that”.

    As for the music being like a provided metronome – way off on that. There are slight tempo variances all through that Chopin piece, but way more so on the Barrios guitar piece. On the Beethoven #5 finale – lots of slight tempo variances that most people can’t even hear. Orchestras speed up and slow down usually intentionally, but sometimes unintentionally – hey – they’re only human too. Following that on drums was very challenging to record. Especially since, by nature, drums and cymbals are very staccato in their attack, so any little part that’s off is quite noticeable.

    Finally, thanks for listening to the Beethoven Finale – of course, the opening movement has been beat into the ground, but so many people are unfamiliar with the awesome finale. In NO way do I feel that what I’m doing is “adding” or “improving” anything to the incredible music of these composers. Any percussion Beethoven, or Mahler, etc. wrote into their music is PERFECT, in my opinion. This is a DRUMMING album that many fans have asked me to do for a long time. As for fans – because of our music, we have introduced thousands to classical music who now go out and listen to the real thing.
    Hey maybe you’ll like the first 1:30 of this song I wrote for a past album of ours!

    http://tourniquet.bandcamp.com/track...the-pipsisewah

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    I think my biggest gripe with it is - you're taking an instrument that voices chords, pieces that have a very defined harmony and texture, and then adding something on top of it that seems to say "to hell with all that." I was a drummer for about 10 years (piano/guitar for around 14), I know about double bass drumming, polyrhythms, ghost notes, etc and I think many others here do too as well. It's not that we don't understand it, it just seems sort of shallow.

    You're perfectly able to follow the horizontal aspect of music, but how do you express the depth of the vertical?


    As I said before, you're definitely a great musician...I just don't think you're going to win over the hardcore classical music fans. Good luck though!

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    You're perfectly able to follow the horizontal aspect of music, but how do you express the depth of the vertical?

    ANSWER: I can't. Nor can a string quartet express the depth of Mahler's Resurrection Symphony. Need about 150 people or so to truly express that kind of depth.

    I hear what you are saying, but my intention was (is) to show people my passion for classical music. I have done it in songwriting in my own way with many classically influenced guitar riffs, and this album I did it with drums. The liner notes to the CD says:

    "To me, the fantastic music of the classical masters is in a totally different realm - there simply is no other music to compare it to. I believe it was a time in history that will never be repeated - kind of like when dinosaurs roamed the earth. In drumming to these timeless works as with any music, I always strive to treat the drums as a musical instrument - not just a noisy time keeper. I feel the music and drumming on MASTERS is not static – it’s alive… and I’m very excited to share it with you. These are some of my favorite composers with some of their most brilliant works." – Ted

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