Thread: Top 25 Composers (Please, Everyone Take Part!)

Originally Posted by Rasa

Damn, I can't even name 25 composers I've listened to enoug to be familiar with their style and oeuvre.

There are definitely a few composers on my list with whom I am not intimately familiar. They made the list either because I really love what little of their music I've heard (ex: Pӓrt) or because I am aware of their influence (ex: Schoenberg). I don't think it's a big deal.

Originally Posted by RBrittain

It's taken a slightly strange turn. I asked people to keep greatness/importance in mind, but to mainly pick based on personal preference. So, for example, only real way Beethoven can't make someone's Top 25 is if they really hate his music.

It was supposed to be a mix of personal taste and objectivity, so I suppose it doesn't surprise me that some of the lunatics () have made some strange lists.

I can't believe you are calling me a lunatic for not liking the same composers as everybody else!

Why should I include composers that I don't like on my top 25 list, just because other people happen to like them? They can put them on their top 25 lists. If you really had wanted objectivity, then why didn't you give us a list of the 50 "greatest" composers and ask us to pick and rank 25 of those "valid" composers?

I don't get Brahms at all. I think Beethoven is extremely overrated. I don't adore Bach. So, none of them appear on my list. For me, it's impossible to combine "honest" and "realistic". The only alternative would have made a dishonest but realistic list, but what would be the point?

For me, the music of Beethoven, Wagner, Tchaikovsky, Bach etc, is great music, and they each created a vast amount of great music, so I barely had to consider the objectivity in picking them. They were naturally always going to be in my Top 25, as I enjoy their music very much. I would hope that most people who picked them feel the same way.

Sure, if your tastes coincide with those of the majority, then it's easy! Subjective and objective is the same thing! But not all of us are that fortunate. To me, subjective and objective would render completely incompatible different top 25s. And since the aggregation of all our top 25 lists will probably show the result you want anyway, then you could have shown the courtesy of not bashing me for not aligning with the expected final list.

People like you make me want to ditch classical and listen to other stuff instead.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pc0mxOXbWIU

This comment brought me some puzzlement:

Originally Posted by RBrittain

... I won't pass judgement on your rankings, but I'll certainly find it odd if Samuel Barber is top of your list and Beethoven does not make it, for example. In extreme cases like that, I may ask you to explain your rankings.

Especially in the light of this comment on your own selection:

Originally Posted by RBrittain

The most notable omission is Haydn. Unfortunately, his music just does nothing for me. He would certainly make my top 50. Same goes for Debussy, Chopin, Mahler, Berlioz, Schumann who may all feel somewhat dismayed at missing out on my list.

One could argue that any Top 25 list without any of Haydn, Debussy, Chopin, Schumann, Berlioz is a bit defective, to say the least.

So who are you to lecture other people on what composers they are entitled to include or exclude?

TresPicos - Your reaction to what I said seems a bit extreme. I put a smiley after the 'lunatic' comment to imply it was mostly tongue-in-cheek. Come on, you had a very unorthodox list:

de Falla top.
Bartok second.

Escher, Alwyn, Bridge in the top 8. At least 5 more minor names in your top 25.

No Beethoven, no Bach, no Wagner.

I'm not even criticising you for it, but you've got to expect people to point out your list as highly unusual.

TresPicos, your explanation is fine. You must have a very unusual mind, to not 'get' Brahms, etc.

I am happy to accept your list. It's fine.

Originally Posted by Toccata

This comment brought me some puzzlement:

Especially in the light of this comment on your own selection:

One could argue that any Top 25 list without any of Haydn, Debussy, Chopin, Schumann, Berlioz is a bit defective, to say the least.

So who are you to lecture other people on what composers they are entitled to include or exclude?

Eh? Why does this puzzle you?

Berlioz? He's nowhere near a stone wall inclusion. So far, he's made around 5 people's lists, usually low down, out of the 24 who have entered. It's certainly not unusual to rank him outside the top 25 (he'd come in at around 30th for me actually).

Schumann? Seems a lot of people here find him overrated. He has only made 10 of the 24 lists so far. At this moment in time, he looks unlikely to make the top 25 but might do it.

Chopin and Debussy? Just not my style of music. They both have a rather specific French style, and it just doesn't appeal to me. I just don't enjoy them. Still, they would both have made my top 40.

Haydn? I'll give you that one. That's a highly unusual omission.

If you compile a list of the Top 25 Composers, you're going to have to leave out some recognised names. We've seen everyone here leave out some big names.

You're the guy who was complaining about the DDD and Goulding lists being copied and too similar, and now you're complaining that my list (which, in fact, isn't all that far off from their lists) is too unusual? Now I'm puzzled.

Have you even given your Top 25 yet? I don't think so. I'd prefer to keep the talk here to people who have been brave enough to give their own Top 25, rather than lurkers who criticise others'. Thank you.

1. Dvořák, Antonín
2. Beethoven, Lv
3. Bruch, Max
4. Schumann, Robert
5. Grieg, Edvard
6. Haydn, FJ
7. Liszt, Franz
8. Tchaikovsky, Piotr
9. Mozart, WA
10. Hanson, Howard
11. Schubert, Franz
12. Smetana, Bedřich
13. Mendelssohn, Felix
14. Rachmaninoff, Sergei
15. Chopin, Frederic
16. Paganini, Niccolò
17. Sibelius, Jean
18. Brahms, Johannes
19. Glazunov, Alexander
20. Beach, Amy
21. Suk, Josef
22. Weyse, Christoph
23. Berwald, Franz
24. Boccherini, Luigi
25. Strauss, Richard

I'm liking the fact that people are not feeling required to list certain composers.

Originally Posted by RBrittain

Schumann? Seems a lot of people here find him overrated. He has only made 10 of the 24 lists so far. At this moment in time, he looks unlikely to make the top 25 but might do it.

And in these cases subjectivity has taken its bitter toll. Many people on this forum have admitted to not having heard much or any of Schumann's solo piano music, songs, and chamber music. In other words, almost the whole bulk of his best output besides the concerti (there's 7 of them by the way, and none of them are slackers) and a few choral works/oratorios. His symphonies aren't the best, that's true (they ain't bad either). But he's definitely not overrated - if anything, more like underrated - since his better works are more obscure than those of his contemporaries (Chopin, Liszt, Mendelssohn, Brahms).

All so-called objective lists have a legitimate reason for their 'objectivity', and Schumann's high place on such a list is certainly no exception.

Originally Posted by Air

And in these cases subjectivity has taken its bitter toll. Many people on this forum have admitted to not having heard much or any of Schumann's solo piano music, songs, and chamber music. In other words, almost the whole bulk of his best output besides the concerti (there's 7 of them by the way, and none of them are slackers) and a few choral works/oratorios. His symphonies aren't the best, that's true (they ain't bad either). But he's definitely not overrated - if anything, more like underrated - since his better works are more obscure than those of his contemporaries (Chopin, Liszt, Mendelssohn, Brahms).

All so-called objective lists have a legitimate reason for their 'objectivity', and Schumann's high place on such a list is certainly no exception.

I must admit, most of what I have heard comes from a Best of Schumann CD I bought a few years ago. I didn't really like any of it, and I figured that if THESE are his best and most famous works, then there is no point in me trying more. But admittedly, yes, he is a composer I haven't heard anywhere near enough of to make an accurate judgement. I don't think it's fair to assume that everyone who did not list him is in the same boat as me, though. They may have heard most of his stuff but just don't rate him in their top 25.

Originally Posted by RBrittain

I must admit, most of what I have heard comes from a Best of Schumann CD I bought a few years ago. I didn't really like any of it, and I figured that if THESE are his best and most famous works, then there is no point in me trying more. But admittedly, yes, he is a composer I haven't heard anywhere near enough of to make an accurate judgement. I don't think it's fair to assume that everyone who did not list him is in the same boat as me, though. They may have heard most of his stuff but just don't rate him in their top 25.

Yes, I do agree with that... even if you have heard everything and 'understand' it through and through, it's still ultimately your decision whether you like something or not.

But since you admit to not knowing much Schumann, you have no excuse! So get listening!

I have mixed feelings about Schumann. He does seem to be underrated and misunderstood by much of the classical-music community today. His reputation has certainly declined since the second half of the nineteenth century. Even his most famous works have become somewhat obscure. On the other hand, as I wrote my list, I couldn't stop thinking of composers who felt more important or just plain better, so gradually he slipped down to 24th place. I know Brahms and Tchaikovsky would have rated him much higher, but...

Originally Posted by Comistra

19. Glazunov, Alexander

Yay! Someone who knows him!

I've never liked Schumann, and I feel like it's somewhat justified; I've been to three concerts with his music in the program of three different genres and all three bored me almost to sleep. Carnaval was the first (solo piano) and I was not only bored, but lost, not being able to figure out which piece was being played at all. Next was the New York Philharmonic playing the second symphony, which was still worse than Carnaval; the only reason I stayed awake was because I consciously made myself stay awake. The third was actually today; the A minor string quartet, which was remarkably boring probably because the quartet that was playing (Shanghai) did not seem to be making any effort to make it sound any more than just pretty.

So far, the only Schumann that I've been able to like has been the piano quintet. Cello concerto didn't make much impact on me, piano concerto almost did... I think Schumann is just not my kind of composer.

Originally Posted by RBrittain

So, in short, I'll accept some oddities, but I'd prefer people pick sensibly and honestly like you did, Webernite. I can't really force anyone to change their lists though, so we'll just have to accept some strangeness.

You can't be much more honest than say what your favourites are.

1. Beethoven
2. Mozart
3. Bach
4. Brahms
5. Dvorak
6. Schubert
7. Chopin
8. Haydn
9. Stravinsky
10. Tchaikovsky
11. Rachmaninov
12. Shostakovich
13. Debussy
14. Janacek
15. Ravel
16. Biber
17. Franck
18. Szymanowski
19. Mendelssohn
20. Mahler
21. Bartok
22. Schumann
23. Faure
24. Elgar
25. Liszt

I've never liked Schumann, and I feel like it's somewhat justified; I've been to three concerts with his music in the program of three different genres and all three bored me almost to sleep. Carnaval was the first (solo piano) and I was not only bored, but lost, not being able to figure out which piece was being played at all. Next was the New York Philharmonic playing the second symphony, which was still worse than Carnaval; the only reason I stayed awake was because I consciously made myself stay awake. The third was actually today; the A minor string quartet, which was remarkably boring probably because the quartet that was playing (Shanghai) did not seem to be making any effort to make it sound any more than just pretty.

So far, the only Schumann that I've been able to like has been the piano quintet. Cello concerto didn't make much impact on me, piano concerto almost did... I think Schumann is just not my kind of composer.

First of all, Schumann is perhaps second only to Schubert among the great composers of lieder. You need to listen to his songs:









I will be the first to admit that Schumann's symphonies are not on par with Beethoven or Brahms or Schubert... but neither are they bad. I personally was quite turned on to them by the more muscular approach taken by the recording of John Eliot Gardiner.

It's in Schumann's smaller chamber works and works for solo piano, however, that you will find his greatest achievements after the lieder. Schumann pushed for the link between poetry and music and often thought of music in poetic terms. Rather that the large sprawling piece, he is the master of the poetic miniature... the musical equivalent of the lyric poem.