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Beethoven's Piano Sonatas (the Best of the Best)

85K views 90 replies 38 participants last post by  maestro57 
#1 ·
I've had a complete set of recordings of the sonatas for a long time now (which I'm pleased with), and occasionally I like to dip into portions of other artists' recordings of these sonatas just for the fresh perspective.

However, in this instance, I want to banish my obsessive need to have every sonata in my collection played by one individual, because I know that - especially in complete sets - even the greatest names have hits and misses.

So, in my quest to find the best performer for each individual sonata, I want to open up this question to all of you: even if you might prefer the complete set from someone else, who's done the best Waldstein? The best Hammerklavier? And all the rest!

In your opinion of course :p
 
#39 ·
i'm with amfibius here. Beethoven is like a god to me and i have so many versions of his so many compositions that i listened to over and over but i accept being myopic :). gould is ok for many baroque compositions but if you are mechanic with beethoven you'd better not try
 
#40 ·
I urge you to find a set of CDs issued by CBC records called "Gould The Young Maverick" featuring Gould playing all five Beethoven concertos, the variations I mentioned and playing some chamber works with other Canadian artists between 1952 and 1956 (?). Agreed this is not pro-forma Beethoven, but it is not the work of a "robotic pianist" either...

We can agree to disagree, and still remain on friendly terms, I hope...
 
#42 ·
don't urge me :)). i have a set of gould/beethoven concertos with bernstein, golschmann, stokowski. i have almost 50 complete sets of beethoven's 5 piano concertos....a lot more of 4th and 5th ;). that's my specialty...kind of
 
#41 ·
Well I have not listened to the Variations by Gould that you allude to. I have to admit that I was so horrified by his sonatas that I dismissed him on the spot. That CD still sits unloved somewhere in my collection. I guess i'll have to hunt one of those performances down.

Coming back on topic - people who I rate for Beethoven sonatas - Schnabel, Richter, Gilels, and Arrau. I am not too impressed with Paul Lewis - to me he sounds like Brendel on sleeping pills :) I have to keep listening, because I paid a lot of money for those discs!!
 
#43 ·
Well I have not listened to the Variations by Gould that you allude to. I have to admit that I was so horrified by his sonatas that I dismissed him on the spot. That CD still sits unloved somewhere in my collection. I guess i'll have to hunt one of those performances down.

Coming back on topic - people who I rate for Beethoven sonatas - Schnabel, Richter, Gilels, and Arrau. I am not too impressed with Paul Lewis - to me he sounds like Brendel on sleeping pills :) I have to keep listening, because I paid a lot of money for those discs!!
i wish gilels sounded like lewis ....sound-wise :)
 
#44 ·
Gould's Beethoven is variable, but he made quite a few good recordings, not just of the variation sets but of the bagatelles and certain sonata movements. Like kv466, I'm attracted to a straightforward playing style with a firm sense of tempo, and I don't think it's necessarily the wrong approach in Beethoven. (That said, I don't quite understand kv466's love of Earl Wild; he should try listening to Friedrich Gulda or Anatoly Vedernikov if he likes Gould-ish playing.)
 
#50 ·
Hello!
Being new in the forum, I am quite wondering why certain names do not show up as they should.

The first one being Claudio Arrau. Arrau has an inner vision of Beethoven which is tremendous, dark and powerfull. One of the Alpha & Omega of Beethoven, the second one being Gilels. Comparing those 2 to Gould, there's a world between the fluidity of an Arrau and the much too mechanical approach of Gould.

Other names are missing like Maria Yudina:
Font Darkness Event Advertising History


Ivan Moravec:
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Hans Richter-Haaser:
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Friederich Gulda:
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And a lot of others.... Brendel with 3 cycles, Uchida, Ginzburg, Backhaus...
 
#55 ·
Sticking with Gould for the moment, are his recordings of Beethoven's piano sonatas included in the Complete Original Jackets Collection considered Gould's best (or most interesting) readings of the Beethoven piano sonatas? I see all the sonatas are not in that collection, though the Glenn Gould Edition CDs include all 32 (suggesting the ones left out of the COJC might be inferior).

I'm looking for responses from those who like Gould for the most part (like I do). "They all suck" doesn't help me much.
 
#59 ·
Yes. I see my mistake now. The Glenn Gould Edition superficially appears to be a complete set, but it in fact only contains the ones in the COJC. I appreciate the insights into his recordings, however.

Odd that he never recorded them all, as most (all?) of the major pianists seem to want to lay down one or more complete sets of the sonatas. Perhaps the other sonatas bored Gould for one reason or another. He strikes me as the type of person who did what he felt like doing despite what the public and/or record company executives wanted.

The above makes me wonder all of a sudden if there are any Glenn Gould bootlegs floating about.
 
#61 ·
Well, the only one that I feel really strongly about, recording wise, is his Sonata #31. It's my favorite of his piano sonatas, and there's a particular recording I have that I love so much more than the rest. It's performed by Donald Betts (link below), and I personally prefer it much more than the recordings by some of the bigger names out there. May not be the best, but it's the best for me ;). And the best part is it's free of charge!

http://musopen.org/music/piece/182
 
#63 ·
I find myself enjoying Gould's renditions of the piano sonatas immensely . . . more than any other pianist I've heard so far. I understand the position of the purists who believe the sonatas should be approached in a less cavalier manner, even though I'm not hearing a lot of liberties being taken by Gould. Perhaps I just don't see them because I approach music from more of a jazz perspective, where creative interpretations of music are not only accepted but encouraged.
 
#66 ·
I'm extremely fond of the Paul Lewis collection of complete sonatas. The recording is crystalline and top notch as well, which also helps. I feel that Lewis is at its best at the more lyrical of the Sonatas, the No. 15 ("Pastorale") being a prime example. Lewis often gives Beethoven a more Romantic treatment which I really enjoy.

A common remark is that he has a hard time with the technically difficult No. 29 ("Hammerklavier"), so I'm currently in the process of listening to the cycle Alfred Brendel recorded for Decca.

Brendel often has these witty touches in his playing which he maintains even throughout the demanding No. 29. So I concur with assessment of Lewis struggling a bit with the piece and I find Brendel's recording of the Sonata better.
 
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#71 ·
I'm extremely fond of the Paul Lewis collection of complete sonatas.
Sorry, but I find Lewis and Brendel to be utterly boring. I was discussing Lewis with a few friends - the consensus was - why bother recording a new Beethoven piano sonata cycle if you are going to say nothing? Lewis goes through the motions. It's all clean, but lacking in originality, excitement, or insight. There is nothing bad about it, but nothing good either.
 
#69 ·
THIS FOR SCYTHEAVATAR.

Arthur Schnabel was a pupil of the great Theodor Leschetizky, part of a class that included Gabrilowitsch and Mark Hambourg. He was taught musical theory by Eusebius Mandyezewsky a good friend of Brahms.
As a pianist he achieved international fame first as interpreter of Schubert, Schumann and Brahms. Also as one of the greatest exponents of Beethoven and Mozart, many of whose concertii he restored to the repertoire.

What makes Schnabel's playing still powerful and influential is its thoroughness of study, intensity of commitment and profundity of insight------and the vitality and daring with which these qualities are realised at the keyboard .
DAVID HAMILTON.

Schnabel in the greater Beethoven begins where other pianists leave off. What is his secret? There is a saying to the effect that Schnabel is a great interpreter of Beethoven rather than a technically great pianist. It is a stupid saying---as though a pianist could get anywhere near an "interpretation" of the Op.106 without a consummate technique. As he plays this work you know that this is the mind of a man that reaches as far as thought and feeling will ever reach.
NEVILLE CARDUS.

It sounds as if Warren is as fixated on Barenboim as KV 466 is on Gould.

I think that Horowitz' RCA 1960 recording of the Appassionata is the most arresting version I've heard.
My favourite Hammerklaviers are those by Charles Rosen and Egon Petri.
But for the sonatas in general the following pianists are are all great and legendary performers .
Elly Ney, Wilhelm Backhaus, Egon Petri, Artur Schnabel, Annie Fischer, Denis Matthews, Yves Nat, Robert Casadesus, and Edwin Fischer.
 
#70 · (Edited)
Like many here, I've heard a lot of LvB Piano Sonata recs. Probably unlike most, I've culled a lot of what I've bought.

I won't presume what's the best. The list below is what I like the most...so far. Feltsman was the latest acquisition, and on probation for a while. But, I finally decided some of his slower tempi were convincing enough...for the time being. Note: All the Schiff listings are ECM.

Wading carefully in Kv466 waters, I think GG does a splendid job on big guns 8, 14, 23. Note: Kitty has escaped from the corner and gone for Goode (for 18).

Sidenote: Schnabel is the real deal. In LvB's stringent moments, a bonafide chance-taker who gloriously pulls it of virtually all the time. Gulda, then Gould, for honorably-mentioned risk-takers.

1 - 3 Pollini, Richter (3)
4 Richter, Sokolov
5 - 8 Pollini, Gould (8), Gilels (8), Gelber (8), Gulda (8)
9 - 11 Schiff
12 - 15 Schiff, Gould (14), Gelber (14), Gulda (15)
16 - 18 Goode
19 - 20 Schiff
21 Gilels, Gulda
22 - 26 Schiff, Gulda (22), Gould (23), Gilels (23)
27 Richter, Gilels
28 - 32 Pollini, Sokolov (28), Horowitz (28), Michelangeli (32), Gilels (28, 30, 31), Feltsman (30 - 32)
 
#72 ·
Amphibius, I agree with you about Lewis (sorry, mensch!). But I like quite a bit of the Beethoven Brendel has recorded over the years, and I love his Schubert, Haydn and Mozart.
 
#73 ·
Having been in search all my life of the best recording (if there is such a thing possible) of the Hammerklavier, my final choice would have to be Brendel's live 1995 recording from Philips, followed Gilels on DG. Of course, the choice will never be over as new recordings and reissues come up all the time. I would also choose Brendel in the Waldstein as with most of the other sonatas, all on his latest Philips complete cycle.

I don't dismiss Gould lightly, as his was a uniquie musical mind - but he just doesn't cut it in Beethoven for me, and Schnabel is interesting from a historic point of view - but all those wrong notes! - come on! As to some other suggestions, Pollini is a good bet in most of the named sonatas and for a fresh approach and bang up to date recording, Paul Lewis' cycle is a good investment.

As to some of the outsiders who pull off the greatest one - off performances, I would name Rudolf Serkin's last concert of the last three sonatas as a high point in what is possible on a spiritual level and for sheer musical perception Kempff gets to the mystery of the Moonlight and Tempest sonatas.

For a furthur thought on the Hammerklavier issue, there is an interesting contender in Edith Vogel, whose 1977 Concert Hall, Broadcasting House recording available on a BBC Music CD nearly has first place for me - do try and hear it, you really will be amazed - and as a last suggestion Myra Hess in the 'Appassionata' is also well worth searching out.
 
#74 · (Edited)
Having been in search all my life of the best recording (if there is such a thing possible) of the Hammerklavier, my final choice would have to be Brendel's live 1995 recording from Philips, followed Gilels on DG. Of course, the choice will never be over as new recordings and reissues come up all the time. I would also choose Brendel in the Waldstein as with most of the other sonatas, all on his latest Philips complete cycle.

I don't dismiss Gould lightly, as his was a uniquie musical mind - but he just doesn't cut it in Beethoven for me, and Schnabel is interesting from a historic point of view - but all those wrong notes! - come on! As to some other suggestions, Pollini is a good bet in most of the named sonatas and for a fresh approach and bang up to date recording, Paul Lewis' cycle is a good investment.

As to some of the outsiders who pull off the greatest one - off performances, I would name Rudolf Serkin's last concert of the last three sonatas as a high point in what is possible on a spiritual level and for sheer musical perception Kempff gets to the mystery of the Moonlight and Tempest sonatas.

For a furthur thought on the Hammerklavier issue, there is an interesting contender in Edith Vogel, whose 1977 Concert Hall, Broadcasting House recording available on a BBC Music CD nearly has first place for me - do try and hear it, you really will be amazed - and as a last suggestion Myra Hess in the 'Appassionata' is also well worth searching out.
"In his public appearances and even in his recordings (done of course in pre-LP dayswhen there was no such thing as tape splices, there were places Schnabel's fingers were painfully extended, pianistic holes there were in plenty.
But those who are pedantic enough to judge a pianist only by his wrong notes entirely miss the essence of Schnabel . The magnitude of his creative accomplishments left technical considerations far behind. his Beethoven has incomparable style,intellectual strength and phrasing of aristocratic poetry. The important thing was even when when his fingers failed him, his mind never did. and when Schnabel had his fingers under control, which was more often than not, he took his listeners to an exalted level." Harold C. Schonberg, "The Great Pianists".
I have now fowarded two posts including opinions by fairly exalted commentators, do you merely discount anything that fails to fit into your preconceived opinion? I wonder how you explain the opinions of other pianists, the critics and the public over the last ddecades? Have you noted how many re-issues of Schnabel are available?
You presumably have an even bigger problem with Cortot's Chopin and wrong notes.
What I think you should try to do is to listen to the music making and don't worry about a few wrong notes or the age of the recording. In my opinion if you think that Lewis' Beethoven is particularly exalted you have a slight problem.
When did Rudolf Serkin become an outsider, his Beethoven was extremely exalted.?
I once was at a George Bolet concert when he got completely lost in the middle of the Liszt sonata and he was a fearsome technician.
Lastly I hope you are not a fan of Maria Callas--not much actual technique there I fear.
 
#77 · (Edited)
I think the word 'recordings' is the key here. Of course, Schnabel was a master pianist and his was the first complete cycle - a groundbreaking achievement for the time and as a mentor and teacher he was, and always will be respected. My view has always been that the problem with older recordings when editing wasn't available that on repeated listening you always expect that wrong note or faulty passage work which can spoilt, or frankly just be plain irritating - I do have a problem with Cortot in so far as some of his recordings are so dreadful they should never have been released - and despite all the old chestnuts about poetry and fire shouldn't a half decent professional pianist be able to hit some of the right notes? Times move on and as recording techniques have improved over the years, so has pianistic technique - this isn't taking anything away from Schnabel et al, but then again we don't take photographs with a box camera anymore. I have just listened to a couple of CDs from the complete Schnabel Beethoven cycle, and yes, there is poetry and a fluid sense of line which is refreshing when listened to ocassionally and in the proper historic context.
Rudolf Serkin has never been an outsider, but his last concert of the last three Beethoven sonatas is an outside choice, one many might not be aware of, or put in the top rank of recordings of these pieces. There will never be any definitives as the musical world and recording is ever changing, which makes discussion so interesting.
 
#78 ·
For many years I purchased new recordings of Beethoven's sonatas as they became available, and was sometimes pleased. Then I decided to 'survey' the recordings, listening to the sonatas in chronological order, played by every pianist I could locate a recording by. The results were revelatory.

The survey only got to the Opus 31s before running out of gas -that's a lot of repetitive listening - but there was a consistency that made further investigation superfluous: Gilels, Richter and Schnabel always 'breathed life into' the works. Brendel was always interesting; Kuerti made the majority of them work, with unusual tempos.

Some pianists have made outstanding recorded interpretations of particular sonatas. Michelangeli - Op.2/3, Cziffra - Op. 53, Webster - Op. 106, for instance. Those are in a different category though: 'one offs', or maybe 'a few offs'.

And now I'm off.

[Yeah, yeah I know - in more ways than one.]
 
#79 ·
While many people buy all kinds of 'things', I primarily buy only musical equipment recorded music. If I need a new pair of shoes I'll go get 'em but not make a big deal out of them. Beethoven Sonata Cycles, on the other hand, I buy as much as science buys ruby red shoes!

The most recent is unfortunately not yet offered as a whole and is in volumes but I am anxiously awaiting the following installments.



It's not 'the best', but very worth listening to...this guy plays Debussy nice, too.

Thing is, there is probably only one pianist can play more than one Beethoven sonata in a way I consider to be perfect and so for the most part I'm going to have a different favorite pianist for each single sonata. These being among my all-time top favorite works not only for piano but in general, I give everyone a chance...I gave this other Chandos release a chance and it it a beauty.

 
#80 ·
[...]
Thing is, there is probably only one pianist can play more than one Beethoven sonata in a way I consider to be perfect and so for the most part I'm going to have a different favorite pianist for each single sonata. These being among my all-time top favorite works not only for piano but in general, I give everyone a chance...I gave this other Chandos release a chance and it it a beauty.

Lortie's Beethoven ranges from mediocre to OK+. Bavouzet, I am waiting for him to 'shake out'. I thought Freddie Kempf was going to get there, and he didn't, A piano-nut friend is very high on Grosvenor, I am not.

And I don't know what it is that is missing; damn.
 
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