Classical Music Forum banner

Do you think Classical Music fans tend to be dismissive of other musical genres?

28K views 270 replies 88 participants last post by  Strange Magic 
#1 ·
We are all enthuasiasts here in TC. We discuss classical music, argue in a composer's merit, participate in classical music poll and etc..


Do you think Classical Music enthuasiasts tend to be dismissive of other musical genres?


I've asked this question because I've read a post dismissing the ''pop music'' today as a garbage (Lady Gaga, Katy Perry, anyone?).

I think some of us committed a form of snobbery by dismissing other genres.. Jazz, I think is highly regarded in TC, while the overproduced/autotuned pop music is looked down.. Granted, that pop music (or any other modern music) tend to be just regurgirated etc... It seems that classical music enthuasists see ''classical'' as a pinnacle of music (high art)..

What do you think?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jonathan Wrachford
#2 ·
I might be one of those kinds of people. But I'm careful about calling anything "trash," I think that's too strong a word. I'd use that word against classical before anything else, because after all, I know classical better. It's more of an issue of "not my thing," or "I don't have an opinion."
 
#3 ·
I definitely agree with the statement of classical fans being dismissive of other genres, and on the contrary I think jazz is one of those genres that is dismissed rather quickly. The parallels may be hard to see at first but jazz musicians worshiped composers like stravinsky, bartok, and schonberg and took a lot of those elements and put them into jazz, the use of upper extensions (9th's, 11ths, 13th's) were extremely prevalent in stravinsky's work and bebop, an extremely fast paced form of jazz popularized in the 40's, relied heavily on the extensions to add color to chords and soloing techniques. Also jazz took its effects on composers as well, although before the real onset of jazz, Dvorak thought it was imperative that african-american and native-american music be the foundation for a new american style of music, he was spot on. Aside from that I think classical fans think somehow that it is far more sophisticated and thus gives a pompous and holier than thou vibe. Although you may argue that musically it is more complex than many genres, you can't prove that it is "better" based on that fact, and looking into other musical styles can show complexities in different areas. Music has and always will change and there will always be a large group who hold on to their traditionalist views, this happens in genres, and even sub-genres of every musical style. I think I benefited immensely by being a fan of the complete opposite spectrum of music (metal, rock, pop) and then getting into jazz and classical music. I think that for all the criticism that, metal for instance, and other genres get, the fans seem to be more open-minded than any other. Honestly I feel that classical music is a genre heavily relying on an older generation of listeners, who have completely different ideals, morals and thought patterns than a young 17 year old like myself, so that is a huge factor. Do you think a 56 year old, who has been surrounded by classical music all of his life, is going to "get" lady gaga? No. Conversely do you think a 16 year old who has been listening to the latest pop/rap music will "get" Scriabin? No. It's hard to say who's more dismissive, but I do feel a sense of fine-art bourgeois-nose-high stubbornness.

Prime example.

http://www.talkclassical.com/5368-typical-classical-snob-thats.html
 
#4 ·
I'm one of those who's not dismissive about other genres. But to tell you the truth, I don't take posts where classical music fans are dismissive of popular music seriously, just like I don't take dismissive comments from pop/rock fans about classical music seriously. I mean, why should a pop/rock fan put any value in what someone who hates pop/rock thinks about the Beatles? Why should a classical fan put any value in what someone who hates classical music thinks about Mozart?
 
#5 · (Edited)
I was dismissive of other genres when I was a teenager. Then, little by little, I grew up.

I hated rock and pop music at the time (early to mid 70's) because I knew so little about it, only what I had been subjected to on the radio. (Free Bird, anyone?) Then one day I was invited to a friend's house to play chess. He put a longish progressive rock epic on the turntable, probably Jethro Tull's Thick as a Brick, or Yes's Close to the Edge, or both. I promptly lost every game. I never dreamed such complex, strange, and wondrous evocative music existed. I was pretty much hooked for life from that point on and all but abandoned classical until a decade later when I started listening to and collecting baroque again.

Soon other genre's followed. I can now appreciate all periods of classical, folk and jazz, funk and electronica, hard rock, jam, metal, and experimental unclassifiable music. I still dismiss country, most top 40 pop, and all rap (though I do enjoy hip hop beats if some moron isn't talking though them). I'm kind of happy with where I am now. 400 years of musical styles is enough for one life.

So I guess what I'm saying is, it's not the genre we are dismissive of. It's the attitude. Chocolate may be said to be a genre of food flavor, but there is a huge difference between a chocolate shake from McDonald's and a Godiva truffle. Top 40 pop is like the McDonalds to me, whereas progressive rock or great jazz is like the Godiva. I do grab a bite of fast food occasionally.
 
#7 · (Edited)
I am sometimes guilty of snobbery, though I try to avoid it. My roommate and I use to try to "convert" each other to our own music (she listens mostly to hip hop), each of us operating with the mentality that the other was missing something by not being able to appreciate "great" music. Neither of us ever really did come to like the other's music, and we've just had to accept that we enjoy different things.

I wish I could be more like one of my friends, a music theory major with an advanced knowledge and understanding of classical music, who seems to find something to admire and/or enjoy in music of almost every genre. I think I really am missing something by failing to appreciate much non-classical music.

Also,
I hated rock and pop music at the time (early to mid 70's) because I knew so little about it, only what I had been subjected to on the radio. (Free Bird, anyone?) Then one day I was invited to a friend's house to play chess. He put a longish progressive rock epic on the turntable, probably Jethro Tull's Thick as a Brick, or Yes's Close to the Edge, or both. I promptly lost every game. I never dreamed such complex, strange, and wondrous evocative music existed. I was pretty much hooked for life from that point on and all but abandoned classical until a decade later when I started listening to and collecting baroque again.
Weston, have you read Listen to This? I've only read the first couple chapters, but your story reminds me a lot of Alex Ross's initial dismissiveness and subsequent introduction to rock. What I've read so far is good; the book is an interesting cross-genre celebration of music.
 
#8 ·
I admit I was guilty of snobbish attitude too.. When my little sister played, the newest Taylor Swift CD, I've cringed and told her, ''Let's listen to Schubert's Lieder!!''.
 
#9 ·
I'm certainly 'dismissive' of other genres, but it's not snobbery. I don't claim that other genres are vacuous compared to classical music; I don't have enough knowledge of them to make those kinds of assumptions, though we might all be aware of the grotesque nature of the great manufacturing of repetitive pop music.

I'm only dismissive in the sense that I have no concept of the quality of other genres, and I'm just not all that interested in finding out. I have made attempts at listening to others genres, but classical music is the only music that has ever 'worked' for me, and there's already a life-time's worth of music to discover in that area, so I'm happy being isolated :D
 
#10 ·
I am no more dismissive of other types of music that do not appeal to me than within classical genres that also do not appeal to me. I might be as dismissive of heavy metal music as I am with the string quartets of Sofia Gubaidulina (born 1931). Speaking of whom, Gubaidulina's SQ have been discussed in TC before - it ain't no fun stuff to listen to, that's for sure (yes, I am dismissing ...).
 
#11 ·
Speaking for myself, I don't only like classical music (though I only go to classical concerts and about 90% of my CD collection is classical). When I'm not listening to the classical, I like to tune in to radio station Triple J broadcast all around Australia, which mainly airs alternative rock, pop, hip hop, dubstep, drum & bass, techno, electronica, world, modern jazz, metal, etc. There's a fair amount of sophistication and artistic refinement in these genres/styles. I'd say that, at their best, they are on par with classical. They are not better or worse, just different. I see no use whatever in comparing say Kanye West with Mendelssohn, there's just no point. It's like comparing chalk and cheese. All I aim is just to enjoy & appreciate them to whatever degree I can at any given point in time...
 
#14 ·
I think there are undoubtedly classical music fans who are dismissive of other genres. On the other hand, all the classical music lovers I know also like other music (mostly pop and hip hop). I grew up liking just popular music and did not start liking classical until later in life. I do vastly prefer classical now, but I am not dismissive of other genres.
 
#15 ·
I've known a pretty large number of CM devotees, including my own folks, who are or have been dismissive of other genres usually based purely on unfounded prejudices and exposure only to mainstream toot on national radio. I've only come to CM in the last couple of years but as with many other genres I still only like relatively little. What I find more woeful is the attitude among most British and Americans towards music from non-Western cultures which is usually one of wilful ignorance as if only western CM or western rock and pop have any worth. On other music forums I've tried to get threads going on non-Western genres but the result is like being in those run down Wild West towns with tumbleweed rolling through.
 
#16 ·
Your question suggests that you think that classical music lovers are closed to other genres. I have been a professional in the classical music business for more than 30 years, but I enjoy listening to many kinds of music besides classical. Depending on my mood and the circumstances, I love to listen to rock (especially 'progressive' rock), jazz (mostly modern), pop and film music.

So, no, I am not dismissive of other musical genres.
 
#17 ·
The binary opposition high art / low art does exist, although the definitions of each category are subject to change.

Calling a piece of music "trash" says more about the person saying it than the music itself.

Is this trash?

 
#22 ·
I actually kind of like it. The Friday song, that is. (The quote function is your friend. The quote function is your friend. The quote function is your friend) Both as an unintentional parody of contemporary pop music and also because it's more intelligent than most other songs that occupy the airwaves.

And also because I secretly know that I couldn't have written something like that at 13.
 
#24 ·
Poor Rebecca Black.. At least, she's not being gunned down by Anonymous. Some people labeled her song as ''the worst music ever'', and I more or less agree.

@norman bates

That's what I'm talking about.. That kind of attitude put a lot of people off. For millions of fans, of these two artists around the world, them are the epitome of their musical being. Much like Schubert for me, I suppose.
 
#25 · (Edited)
Why not be dismissive of second-rate music? :)

In all seriousness, I do enjoy quite a bit of jazz and rock, especially the rock artists who strove to create entire albums of artful music (as in Pet Sounds, Sgt. Pepper, Wish You Were Here, OK Computer, etc.) Such music undeniably belongs in the realm of 'classic.'

But no, I am NOT a fan of the mainstream three-minute three-chord pop song, manufactured from the huge music companies for 50 cents a pop. I've tried listening to the Top 40 and it just bores me to tears every time.
 
#27 ·
But no, I am NOT a fan of the mainstream three-minute three-chord pop song, manufactured from the huge music companies for 50 cents a pop. I've tried listening to the Top 40 and it just bores me to tears every time.
Well, especially these days most top 40 songs are about as useless as a one legged man in an *** kicking competetion, but as always there are bound to be exceptions. There is bound to be a difference in quality between the efforts of the various artists within each genre, including those that you, me or anyone else doesn't like. It's logical to assume that if you would ask 1000 artists in that field to come up with a simple three-minute three-chord pop song that some will do a much better job than others. And those that do the best job are probably better at coming up with three minute pop songs than artists/composers from so-called superior genres would be.
 
#29 ·
Every one should remember this saying from ancient Rome -
De Gustibus Non Est Disputandum . There's no use arguing over taste.
It's a bad idea for CM lovers to disparage and dismiss other kinds of music, because fans of those kinds of music really love their music,too. Aren't they entitled to their tastes?
If classical music devotees sneer at Rock,Pop, Jazz, folk or whatever, they create resentment among the fans of these things. Not a good idea. It's not a good idea to come across as a snob. This can easily make others who know little or nothing about CM that they should not even try it.
It reinforces the old canard about CM being stuffy,boring and "elitist" and closes people's minds.
So, if you are happen to get into a conversation with a fan of Rock or Pop, etc, and discuss your love of classical music,rather than denigrating Rock or Pop etc, it's better to try to encorage that person to try classical instead, and tell him or her that classical is really awesome if you just give it a chance.
My classical music blog "The Horn" at the multiblog website blogiversity.org, where any one can volunteer to do a blog on virtually any subject, I try to explain and demystify classical music for people who are new to it or would like to try it ,among other things.
I make it a point never to disparage or denigrate other kinds of music on my blog,lest I come across as a snob and an "elitist". I make comparisons between classical and other kinds of music, but I never say that i the "supreme" or "highest" kind of music. You can easily access it from the blogiversity home page or
from a link at this Frenchhorn blog, hornmatters.com.
 
#31 ·
I'm not dismissive of other styles of music anymore. There was a time when I thought there were terrible kinds of music, but it's just a matter of taste now. I've made it known here that I appreciate folk and jazz, as well as some rock music. I hate light pop music, but it's just me and my want of some sort of thought going into what is produced and making the listener think. Other people don't care, and that's fine by me, and I don't dismiss them and therefore can't dismiss their music.
 
#32 · (Edited)
The difference between classical music and other genres is that listening to classical music involves some element of "art appreciation" (or whatever you want to call it). Classical music fits in with painting, literature, poetry, and so on.

That being said, I'm not dismissive of non-classical music, even Lady Gaga. I can understand why people like it, perhaps because I was brought up in a house where classical music was only a small part of what was heard. The main attraction of pop music, it seems to me, is that it involves a human voice speaking in a language you can understand (and with relatively natural speech patterns). For most people, the human voice gives pop music an emotional directness and power which is completely lacking in a string quartet or even a nocturne.
 
#33 ·
I don't understand why people feel the need to defend pop music, considering how they are made by money hungry executives, with artists whose image is far more important than their ability to sing and is aimed at drones with no idea what good music is. How could good music possibly be made under those circustances?
 
#36 ·
Hollywood has been putting out movies under those exact same circumstances for as long as the movie industry has existed. Yet virtually everyone can name a very long list of Hollywood movies that he/she loves.
 
#34 ·
There are certainly musical genre that do nothing for me... and I rarely have anything to say about them. I do, at times, make dismissive comments about specific trite pop musicians... but this is not because I am dismissing the entire genre, but rather because I find them to be an embarrassment within their own realm... to say nothing of comparing them with Mozart or Bach. I personally enjoy jazz quite a bit. I also have a decent sized collection of blues music, classic rock/pop, and traditional folk and bluegrass.
 
#35 ·
The difference between classical music and other genres is that listening to classical music involves some element of "art appreciation" (or whatever you want to call it). Classical music fits in with painting, literature, poetry, and so on.

And yet... many of the greatest painters of the last 100 years have been just as influenced by non-classical music, including jazz, blues, rock/pop, and even hip-hop. The same can be pointed out for many of the greatest poets and writers of the 20th century.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top