Classical Music Forum banner

Composers' Lists of Greatest Composers

38K views 94 replies 44 participants last post by  Guest002 
#1 ·
Since we've all shown each other our own lists, how about this: What do you think the composers' personal lists of greatest composers were?

For example, Wagner's list would be something like this:
1) Wagner :D
2) Beethoven
3) Liszt
4) Berlioz
.
.
.
Infinity) Mendelssohn ;)
 
#53 · (Edited)
6)J.C. Bach
I have read the J.S. had a few not so nice things to say about his son Carl Phillip's music("his music fades, like Prussian Blue"), but did he actually like the music of his youngest composer son, J.C., that much? It seems to me that J.S. was down on the gallante style, and that J.C.(the most rebellious of them all) was further into it than C.P.E. If anything, of his sons, I would think he would most appreciate Wilhelm Friedemann and maybe some of Johann Christoph Friedrich's. They were more contrapuntal.
 
#3 ·
Everyone seemed to like Bach, at least those who came after Mendelssohn's revival of his music.

Well, judging from what I have read, here are some compositions and composers that other composers admired (off the top of my head- these things are pretty well known) -

Bruckner - a big Wagner fan (everyone here probably knows that - he dedicated his 3rd symphony to the man), but Bruckner also studied Beethoven's late quartets when composing his string quintet & the music of Palestrina was a huge influence on Bruckner's choral music in particular. Not to mention ALL of the then current organ repertoire - including J. S. Bach - Bruckner was the greatest organist and improviser on organ of his generation.

Schubert & Wagner both greatly admired Beethoven's String Quartet op. 131

Wagner also admired Weber, who was a great influence on him. When Weber's body was reinterred for burial, Wagner gave the oration at the graveside.

Tchaikovsky was a huge fan of Mozart, even wrote the "Mozartiana" suite in his honour, and the Rococo Variations for cello and orchestra are also of this style.

Beethoven was also a huge fan of Mozart (writing a number of variations for cello and piano based on his opera tunes). At his deathbed, Beethoven expressed great admiration for Handel.

As for composers who thought others work was pus, Ravel, Debussy and most other French composers at the time hated everything German (or Austrian!!!), as that was the fashionable thing, and Ives thought that Mozart's and Chopin's music was for "cissies":eek: although he greatly admired Beethoven (quoting the 5th symphony in many works) as well as Dvorak...
 
#4 ·
As for composers who thought others work was pus, Ravel, Debussy and most other French composers at the time hated everything German (or Austrian!!!), as that was the fashionable thing,
From what I have read - this is incorrect, especially for Ravel:

"Ravel's preferred way of teaching would be to have a conversation with his students and demonstrate his points at the piano. He was rigorous and demanding in teaching counterpoint and fugue, as he revered Johann Sebastian Bach without reservation. But in all other areas, he considered Mozart the ideal, with the perfect balance between "classical symmetry and the element of surprise", and with works of clarity, perfect craftsmanship, and measured amounts of lyricism. Often Ravel would challenge a student with "What would Mozart do?" and then ask the student to invent his own solution"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maurice_Ravel

"He had considerable admiration for other 19th century masters such as Chopin, Liszt, Mendelssohn, and Schubert."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maurice_Ravel

It does however also say Ravel wasnt huge on Beethoven or Wagner.

---
Debussy however:

'one of Debussy's biggest influences was Richard Wagner. According to Pierre Louys, Debussy "did not see 'what anyone can do beyond Tristan."'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claude_Debussy

This does seem to be about the only major German influence on Debussy.
 
#7 ·
I always imagined Wagner's list would go something like this:

1/ Wagner
2/ Wagner
3/ Wagner
4/ Wagner
5/ Wagner
 
  • Like
Reactions: Cosmos and PetrB
#8 ·
Schubert's list would be..

1. Beethoven

2. Beethoven

3. Mozart

4. Salieri (his teacher)

5. C.P.E Bach
 
#9 ·
Glazunov's List:

"I wanna be like all of them at the same time!"

1. Borodin/Rimsky-Korskakov/Balakirev/Liszt/Wagner/Tchaikovsky/Saint-Saens/Brahms/Mendelssohn/Schumann/Beethoven/Mozart/Bach/Corelli/Palestrina

no 2nd tier.

:lol:

Prokofiev's list:

1. Prokofiev
2. Prokofiev
3. Prokofiev
4. Prokofiev
4. Debussy, R. Strauss, Stravinsky Prokofiev
 
#10 · (Edited)
I'm going to take this more as "who they were influenced by" than as "who they thought were best."

Brahms: Mozart, Bach, Beethoven, Schubert, Schumann, Schütz, Couperin, Buxtehude, Haydn, Wagner, Mendelssohn, Handel.

Schumann: Bach, Beethoven (quite heavily infuenced by "early" Beethoven in some respects), Mendelssohn, Schubert, Hummel, Weber, Mozart.

Beethoven: Haydn, Mozart, Handel, Bach, Hummel.

Wagner: Mozart, Beethoven, Bach, Chopin, Liszt, Berlioz, Weber, various opera composers.

Mahler: Beethoven, Bruckner, Bach, Wagner.

Schoenberg: Wagner, Brahms, Mozart, Beethoven, Mahler, Schubert, Reger, Webern, Berg, Debussy, Stravinsky.

Prokofiev: Tchaikovsky, Haydn, Mozart, Rachmaninov, Wagner, Rimsky-Korsakov, Stravinsky, Shostakovich, Scriabin, Strauss.

Liszt: Beethoven, Schubert, Chopin, Wagner, Berlioz, Bach, Mozart.

Chopin: Mozart, Bach, Hummel, Scarlatti, Clementi, Bellini, Rossini.

Mendelssohn: Bach, Mozart, Beethoven (particularly late Beethoven), Weber, Haydn.
 
#11 ·
Schumann was also heavily influenced by Schubert.. I seem to remember reading, that when Schumann have ''discovered'' Schubert's Ninth, he expressed to Clara that he's wish was to write that kind of symphony.. And he have written his symphony (Symphony no. 2) in the same key: C major.
 
#12 ·
Heh, well I wouldn't go as far as to say Wagner disliked Mendelssohn that much. He had mixed feelings about his music, certainly, but there are recorded statements of him saying that he often found himself humming themes from Mendelssohn's compositions, and flat out called the Hebrides Overture a masterpiece.

Aside from his well known favorite composers and influences (Beethoven, Mozart, Weber) he was also quite passionate over works by composers like Bellini, Marschner, and Halévy.
 
#13 ·
Interesting. I'm not doing a top ten, but I'll guess who liked who.

I know Schoenberg's favorite composer was Brahms, but I'll bet he also liked Wagner.
I bet Stravinsky liked Mussorgsky and Rimsky-Korsakov (obviously!)
Ligeti would have liked Bartók.
Boulez would have liked Schoenberg.
 
#16 ·
Webernite, I have to ask - how could Prokofiev be influenced by DSCH? He was already out of his home country for some time and had established his own mature style by the time Shosters had his first works published. And although I'm sure there was a mutual admiration I can't quite understand how Schoenberg could have been influenced by his two students either - have I missed something?
 
#17 ·
Well, I stand by what I wrote, but I admit I was trying to be thought-provoking and to not simply state the obvious.

I think it is pretty widely recognized by scholars that Berg and Webern's experiments had a considerable influence on their teacher, as well as vice versa. You have to keep in mind that Webern was already a competent composer when he began taking lessons from Schoenberg: he wasn't there to learn basic harmony and how to play Für Elise. Berg was less competent at first, but by the end of his studies (which lasted six years), he too was a solid composer. They must have shared countless musical ideas. Schoenberg himself wrote in his diary: "The obstinacy with which my students tread on my heels, as they strive to outbid what I offer, puts me in danger of becoming their imitator." He was driven on by his students, particularly Webern, and particularly during the 1910s, his most experimental period. And don't forget that he outlived them both.

As for Prokofiev and Shostakovich, all I can say is that they sound to me as though they influenced each other. Of course Prokofiev died before some of Shostakovich's greatest works were written, and of course, as you say, Prokofiev had a distinct style before Shostakovich became widely known. But Prokofiev's style was always developing, and the two composers were well aware of each other and heard many of each other's works.

Edit: Sorry for the long post. :eek:
 
#18 ·
Thanks, Webernite. I knew Berg and Webern were pushing the envelope but I really had no idea that it was actually a catalyst for Schoenberg's own inspiration.
 
#19 ·
I think it hasn't been mentioned yet that the thing between Wagner and Bruckner wasn't one-sided: Wagner thought highly of Bruckner's music as well. I think I've read a Wagner quote that went something like "I know of only one composer who is as good as Beethoven, and that is Bruckner". So Bruckner would certainly be on Wagner's list (although it's pretty certain that Wagner himself occupies post #1 there).
 
#21 ·
Tchaikowsky was always outspoken. I know he liked Bach and Mozart, and Beethoven, but not some of the stuff in his last years, like the last string quartets. I know Tchaikowsky didn't think much of the Mighty Handful, except maybe Rimski-Korsakov and Balakirev.

I get the impression that most romantic and later composers were at least positive over Bach and Mozart, and I suppose also Beethoven. It would be the same top three as nowadays, I think. Other highly regarded composers like Wagner and Brahms were much more controversial, I think. Often you were either a musical innovator like Wagner , or you would appreciate the more classic line like Brahms.
 
#22 ·
Brahms is often stereotyped as an opponent of Bruckner, yet some information I came across in liner notes in a cd of the latter's 6th symphony give a lie to this. It says that at the premiere of some of the movements of Bruckner's 6th, Brahms was applauding vigorously. I think that it was mainly people like the critic Eduard Hanslick who had a major problem with Bruckner. I don't think that other composers were as vehement as him in their criticism. I've also read (on this forum, I think) that Mahler, Wolf and Hans Rott were huge admirers of the older Bruckner...
 
#30 · (Edited)
Brahms is often stereotyped as an opponent of Bruckner, yet some information I came across in liner notes in a cd of the latter's 6th symphony give a lie to this. It says that at the premiere of some of the movements of Bruckner's 6th, Brahms was applauding vigorously. I think that it was mainly people like the critic Eduard Hanslick who had a major problem with Bruckner.
Bruckner first came to Vienna at the suggestion of Eduard Hanslick, who had praised his organ playing and a few choral compositions, as far as I know there was no bad blood between them before Bruckner presented his symphonies. As for the relationship with Brahms, the Hamburg master was notoriously grumpy and is said to have disapproved of Bruckner's theoretical teachings; Bruckner on the other hand considered Brahms' symphonies facile and mannered. No doubt the press played a huge part in fueling possible animosities and misunderstandings between the two, though towards the end of their lives they seem to have developed a sort of mutual respect for each other. Brahms arranged a performance of Bruckner's Te Deum (the last time Bruckner saw this work in concert) and supposedly attended his burial in secret.

And Debussy greatly admired Mozart, Bach and - though he disapproved of his occasionally crude means of expression - Beethoven.

EDIT: Here's another list for you guys.

Leoš Janáček: Tchaikovsky, Mussorgsky, Puccini, Dvořák, Berg; possibly also Bruckner
 
#31 ·
Hello, I'm new here. This is an interesting topic, but as someone who has done quite some research in this field, I must say there are quite some errors here.

Among composers, Mozart, Bach and Beethoven have always been the most popular composers. If you were to hold a poll among composers, probably Mozart would end as number 1, with Beethoven a close second. Here some favorite composers of great composers:

Haydn considered Mozart the greatest composer he knew. He said he learned the most from C.Ph.E Bach. He considered Beethoven very talented, but his music awkward as well.

Beethoven considered Mozart the greatest composer, till he learned to know Händel better, than Händel became his favorite. He also admired Haydn and Bach.

Von Weber’s favorite composer was Mozart. He wasn’t too fond of Beethoven.

Rossini’s idol was Mozart. He also valued Bach very highly, as well as Haydn and Beethoven (though he preferred the early Beethoven).

Schubert idolized Mozart. In his youth he had some reservations about Beethoven, but later in his life that completely changed. He also worshipped Haydn and Hummel.

Berlioz’s idols were Beethoven and Gluck. He was ambigious about Mozart, whom he called the greatest musician in the world, but of whom he could also be critical. Haydn he didn’t consider very important. He even strongly disliked Bach and Händel.

Schumann particularly admired Beethoven and Bach, as well as Mozart and Schubert. Mendelssohn he called “The Mozart of the 19th century”, and he also championed Chopin. He was less positive about Wagner. He didn’t see the great value of Haydn.

In his youth, Mendelssohn considered Beethoven the greatest composer. In later life he moved a little more in the direction of Bach and Mozart. He also worshipped Händel and Haydn. He didn’t share the same enthousiasm for his contemporaries.

Liszt’s great hero was Beethoven, followed by Schubert. He revered Bach as well, mainly later in his life I believe. He also admired Mozart and Von Weber.

In opposite to what people say here, Wagner was more modest than one would expect. He said he wasn’t even allowed to tie Beethoven’s shoe laces, for example. Wagner’s remarks are a bit confusing. Normally he’s most associated with Beethoven, but at the same time he said of Mozart that “the most tremendous genius raised Mozart above all masters, in all centuries and in all the arts”, and about Bach: “the greatest miracle in all music”, and about Liszt that he was the greatest musician in the world. His disapproval of Mendelssohn is notorious, but don’t forget he once sent his first symphony to Mendelssohn, who lost it (which may explain Wagner’s later attitude to Mendelssohn). But he called Mendelssohn nevertheless the greatest purely musical talent since Mozart. Wagner made also very cautious remarks about Schumann.

Chopin’s heroes were Mozart and Bach. He also liked Haydn and Hummel. His opinions of Mendelssohn are contradicting. He was full of disdain for Berlioz. In opposite to what is often said, he didn’t dislike Beethoven at all, though it was clear Chopin was of a different temper.

Brahms’ favorite composer was not Beethoven, but Mozart, though he deeply admired Beethoven as well. Next to Mozart, Bach was his favorite. He also worshipped Schubert, Haydn, Mendelssohn, Schumann and Dvorak, and even Wagner.

Mozart was also Tchaikovsky’s idol. He admired but didn’t like Beethoven, considered Bach good, but no genius, and disliked Brahms fullheartedly, though he admired him for his sincerity. He preferred Grieg instead.

Also Grieg considered Mozart unattainable, even compared to Bach, Beethoven and Wagner. Chopin is often mentioned as Grieg’s favorite composer, but I found no evidence for that, I think it’s due to the fact they both wrote mainly for the piano. Grieg loved Verdi, Schumann, Mendelssohn and Dvorak as well. He saw Richard Strauss’ great gifts, but didn’t like what he did with it.

Bruckner’s idol was Wagner. He was extremely humile about his own achievements compared to other composers, mainly to Wagner.

Dvorak considered Mozart the greatest of all composers. He admired Beethoven and Schubert very much, as well as Brahms and Wagner.

Saint-Saëns main heroes were Mozart, Bach and Beethoven, Haydn as well. He admired Wagner as well, and had some reservations about Berlioz, though he recognized his genius as well.

The principal heroes of Mahler were Wagner and Beethoven. He also deeply admired Mozart (he died after murmuring “Mozartl”, little Mozart) and Bach.

The favorite composer of Debussy was Chopin. Bach was a god to him, as was Mozart. He considered Wagner and Beethoven geniuses, but could also be very critical of them. He was ambigious about Liszt and Berlioz, and rather negative about Mendelssohn and Schubert. He was inspired by the Russians, but felt little sympathy for Tchaikovsky.

Richard Strauss’s god was Mozart. He admired Schubert, Haydn, Wagner, Beethoven and Bach as well. He disliked atonal composers.

Schoenberg named Mozart and Bach as his principal teachers, the latter he considered the greatest of them all. Next came Beethoven and Brahms. His tastes were mainly Teutonic, he also had a high opinion of Mendelssohn and Wagner. He could be caustic about Stravinsky.

From his early life on, Stravinsky championed Mozart and Tchaikovsky, while he disliked Beethoven. Later he learned to appreciate Beethoven, and he revered Bach. He once named Schubert as his favorite composer. He had less positive things to say about Wagner, Berlioz, was partial to Brahms, and considered Schubert far more interesting than Schumann. Besides them he loved Rossini, Mendelssohn and Von Weber.

Prokofiev considered, maybe surprisingly, Haydn as his favorite composer. Tchaikovsky he admired as well.
Bartok’s early love was Beethoven. Other composers he admired were Bach, Debussy, Mozart, Richard Strauss. He disliked Shostakovich.

The favorites of Sibelius were Bach, Mozart and Beethoven. He also loved Mendelssohn, whom he considered with Mozart a greater master of orchestration that Strauss or Stravinsky.

Ravel regarded Mozart as the most perfect of all composers. He could be rather harsh about Beethoven, though he didn´t hate him, as is suggested here. Like Debussy, he loved the Russians (but not Tchaikovsky), as well as Schubert and Mendelssohn.

Vaughan Williams had Bach on top of his list. He had mixed feelings about Beethoven and preferred Haydn to Mozart.
Hindemith considered Bach the greatest composer and deeply admired Mozart.

Shostakovich´s tastes were eclectic, as he put it, he liked everything from “Bach to Offenbach”. He was fond of the classics, and in his youth he considered Mahler the greatest composer of all. Among Russians, he venerated Moussorgsky and Tchaikovsky, and considered Stravinsky the greatest composer of the 20th century.

Britten’s idol was Mozart. He loved Schubert a lot as well, and admired Bach. In later life, he developped a disliked for Brahms and Beethoven.

Messiaen’s favorites were Debussy, Wagner, Mozart and Berlioz. Except for Mozart, he considered the classics and the baroque composers as composers who knew nothing about rhythm.

Boulez’s favorite composer I think was Webern.

Ligeti admired Brahms, considered Mozart’s operas the greatest of all, and Cosi Fan Tutte the most beautiful music there was, and saw the operas of Verdi as close to the level of Mozart’s.
Did I miss something yet? ;-)
 
#45 ·
Boulez's favorite composer I think was Webern.
at first, but later for what i've read he preferred Berg, because he says that Webern's music is too simple.

Peter Warlock's favorites were Delius and Bernard Van Dieren. Oh, and Delius hated Mozart (""if a man tells me he likes Mozart, I know in advance that he is a bad musician")
 
#33 ·
I recently read an article about Schumann in a classical music magazine called Gramophone (Sept. 2010 issue) that stated - Debussy, Ravel, Tchaikovsky and Britten 'tended to reject Beethoven' and 'detested Brahms', yet all loved Schumann.
 
#34 ·
Interesting how Bartok formulated an opinion about Shostakovich when he died while Shosti's career was still young... I wonder if his thoughts would have changed if he had lived to hear his later masterpieces. The two composers can be similar in sound, though I suppose Bartok is more intellectual and creative.
 
#35 · (Edited)
Nice post, but there are some small changes I would make:
  • Schumann championed Chopin, but was critical of some of his music
  • Mendelssohn always liked Bach; not just later in life
  • Chopin did make disparaging comments about Beethoven
  • It's going a bit far to say that Brahms "worshipped" Dvorak and Mendelssohn
  • Stravinsky was not partial to Brahms at all
  • Stravinsky was partial to Schumann, but considered Schubert the greater composer
  • Tchaikovsky too was very fond of Schumann
  • Mahler and Schumann practically deified Bach
  • Liszt was very important to Bartok, even if he didn't always like to admit it
 
#37 ·
I'm open to criticism on my post, I can't agree with most what you wrote however:

Nice post, but there are some small changes I would make:
  • Schumann championed Chopin, but was critical of some of his music

    This may be, though I don't know to which comments of Schumann on Chopin you are referring. Overall Schumann was definitely very positive about Chopin, writing "heads off, gentlemen, a genius" as a comment on Chopin's variations on La ci darem la mano. He also said that alone Chopin opened, developped and ended his work with dissonances, and in Carnaval, he wrote a piece that was dedicated to Chopin. Chopin on the other hand really disliked Schumann, and didn't consider "Carnaval" music at all.
  • Mendelssohn always liked Bach; not just later in life

    This I didn't say, Mendelssohn definitely always loved Bach. Just in an early letter he refers to Beethoven as the greatest composer of all. In later life, according to an acquintance of Mendelssohn, Mendelssohn's models were rather Bach and Mozart, than Beethoven.
  • Chopin did make disparaging comments about Beethoven

    This is overemphasized in literature. Chopin is reported to have had some reservations about some of Beethoven's piano music, though his pupils sometimes contradicted each other. He also said that Beethoven sometimes turned his back to eternal principles, while Mozart never did it. But on the other hand, if you read his letters, you eager Chopin is to visit the Beethoven monument, and in one letter he writes "Mozart, Hummel, Beethoven, the masters of us all". That says enough, doesn't it?
  • It's going a bit far to say that Brahms "worshipped" Dvorak and Mendelssohn

    Oh, he definitely did. Brahms called Mendelssohn "the last great master", and he was also very fond of Dvorak. He said that Dvorak used melodies as secondary material that Brahms himself would be happy to have used as a primary melody. Of both masters he had a lot of sheet music, as much as he had of Schumann.
  • Stravinsky was not partial to Brahms at all

    Stravinsky didn't consider Brahms a bit composer, but it wasn't his favorite one.
  • Stravinsky was partial to Schumann, but considered Schubert the greater composer

    I didn't deny this, I don't know to which extent Stravinsky was partial to Schumann (maybe you can tell me), I just know he preferred Schubert.
  • Tchaikovsky too was very fond of Schumann

    That I didn't deny, this is true.
  • Mahler and Schumann practically deified Bach

    Schumann did, and where did I deny it? Mahler also worshipped Bach, as I wrote. But Mahler's two greatest heroes were definitely Beethoven and Wagner, this he has explicitly stated in one of his letters.
  • Liszt was very important to Bartok, even if he didn't always like to admit it
This is true, though Bartok could also be critical of Liszt indeed.
 
#43 ·
Prokofiev's favorite composer was supposedly Haydn.
Well, possibly, but I've also heard it another way that Prokofiev was "like" Haydn, in mentality maybe (?).
Prokofiev's real favorite composers were Debussy and Richard Strauss, no doubt about it.
 
#38 ·
I think we basically agree. Regarding Brahms's view of Dvorak and Mendelssohn, it's true he liked much of their music, but he criticised it too. Dvorak, in particular, couldn't possibly be described as one of Brahms's "great composers" in the sense of Schubert, Haydn, etc. Regarding Stravinsky's view of Schumann, all I know is that he said (in Dialogues) that he had "a personal weakness" for Schumann's music.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top