Thread: Eroica

Eroica is brilliant classical statue of great hero, it describe all aspects of heroic struggle - in diffrent context than the 5th which is more about personal struggle with fate while the 3rd is a monument glorifying heroism, it's most beautiful apotheosis of it's spirit. I always think of it as a statue even in a literal way, if this symphony would take material shape it would become a pure, resplendent statue of great man riding a horse in majestic posture, with his head crowned with laurel wreath and his right hand pointing the direction to glory and rightfulness. This vision haunts me especially in the first part of the coda (first bars after the silent part).

Originally Posted by Vaneyes

Well, maybe Choral Fantasy.

Have you heard the Yudina recording?

Originally Posted by Pieck

The first is very cute one, completely classical, a lot of humor (the codas at the beginning). I bet Mozart would have enjoyed it.
I dont get why his symphonies are considered the best, I do enjoy them but except the fifth I just dont know what is there that is SO genius.

Well, maybe not completely classical... The harmonic progressions at the beginning were pretty atypical for their time and people reacted accordingly ("Okay, we're in F. No, we're in ...G? What the hell is he doing?!").

What makes Beethoven's symphonies unique to me is the way he manages to combine incredibly tight construction with very thorough and varied development. He will often take just a couple tiny motivic elements and build a whole symphony on them that somehow manages to avoid becoming repetitive and dull and contains no extraneous elements (and I think the first movement of Eroica examplifies this practice better than anything else he wrote before the 5th symphony, which is perhaps its pinnacle). The economy of his composition is astounding, the way he can say so much with the most basic material, and that, for me, is a main mark of Beethoven's genius. In his best works, every turn the piece takes just sounds inevitable.

Originally Posted by Aramis

Eroica is brilliant classical statue of great hero, it describe all aspects of heroic struggle - in diffrent context than the 5th which is more about personal struggle with fate while the 3rd is a monument glorifying heroism, it's most beautiful apotheosis of it's spirit. I always think of it as a statue even in a literal way, if this symphony would take material shape it would become a pure, resplendent statue of great man riding a horse in majestic posture, with his head crowned with laurel wreath and his right hand pointing the direction to glory and rightfulness. This vision haunts me especially in the first part of the coda (first bars after the silent part).

Pretty cool description, actually.

Originally Posted by Hilltroll72

Have you heard the Yudina recording?

No, and thank you for your recommendation, but I'm really tuned out of that work, as well as, Wellingtons, Missa solemnis, Eroica Variations, Bagatelles, Fur Elise, and others.

http://www.amazon.com/Eroica-Ian-Har...6448207&sr=8-1

Watch this movie and you'll understand the Eroica a lot better. It is one of the most significant compositions in the history of Art Music as it presents the concept of music as self-portrait and confessional. Music no longer is viewed as entertainment for the nobility, but rather a vehicle for the self expression of the composer. It shatters so many conventional rules which is why it was panned on the first hearing. Listen to Robert Greenburg's Teaching Company lectures on the Eroica and you'll be in love with its structure and genius.

Originally Posted by Hazel

Thanks. I cannot imagine a Beethoven composition not being "good". It might be one we don't personally like but that doesn't mean it isn't good composition. Nice to hear the positive responses here.

Well...there's that Sonata in G that everyone wants to forget :P

Originally Posted by Hazel

I tried Search to no avail. Has there been a discussion of Beethoven's Eroica here? If yes, could someone please direct me to it? There is no sense in doing it twice. I have just listened to it on youtube and then read very negative comments about the composition. I'd like to know what you all think of it. I do notice that none of my Beethoven CDs include it for whatever reason.

Thank you.

WHILE they're probably just internet trolls, it's not like they don't have precedent. The premiere for Eroica went horrifically - many audience members complained about the length. Subsequently, Beethoven was peeved there wasn't more applause. Eroica definitely limped out of the gate.

Buuuuuuuuut, as emiellucifuge said, public opinion today is certainly much different!

I recall reading online that the "Eroica" is probably one significant reason why Beethoven is considered a romantic. This may be seen in light of the thread that discusses that topic.

Originally Posted by Romantic Geek

WHILE they're probably just internet trolls, it's not like they don't have precedent. The premiere for Eroica went horrifically - many audience members complained about the length. Subsequently, Beethoven was peeved there wasn't more applause. Eroica definitely limped out of the gate.

Buuuuuuuuut, as emiellucifuge said, public opinion today is certainly much different!

I felt a disconnectedness in it but that was only "felt". Maybe I just need to (1) have a good recording of it and (2) know how to listen to it. Youtubes are not places to judge anything as I find every once in a while.

Originally Posted by Hazel

I felt a disconnectedness in it but that was only "felt". Maybe I just need to (1) have a good recording of it and (2) know how to listen to it. Youtubes are not places to judge anything as I find every once in a while.

Re 1. I like Hanover Band/Goodman (Nimbus, rec 1987), smaller forces, original instruments, very musical, detailed, and BPO/Karajan (DG, rec 1963), thrilling, big band sound, very good remastering for 2007 reissue shown below. Historical: Toscanini '53, Scherchen '58.

Re 2. This link for Philadelphia Orchestra program notes may be helpful...

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=5456722

Thank you for recommendation.

I have the Karajan (packaged differently - in a set of the complete Beethoven symphonies.) It's a great recording.

I think Eroica is tough to swallow especially if you're not accustomed to large works. It's a natural reaction. It's a long symphony. Beethoven was a master at introducing motives and exploring them. The opening to the Eroica is iconic. Try listening to how he uses that chromatic C# in the rest of the piece. That's what I like doing!

Thank you. I'll be checking it out next week.

The Hanover Band under Goodman is what Brits (and Aussies, apparently) call "scrappy". Old hillbillies call it poor ensemble.