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Thread: Curious case of "The King's Speech" (Video analysis of Beethoven Vs Vaughan William)

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    Default Curious case of "The King's Speech" (Video analysis of Beethoven Vs Vaughan William)

    Hi Folks,

    I recently saw "The King's Speech", and the use of Beethoven prompted me
    to make this video/analysis. I basically replaced the Beethoven music
    with Ralph Vaughan Williams in place. I didn't recut/change any of the video.

    This video (I think) falls under the 'fair use' act to help propel discussion/debate.

    *Don't watch this clip if you haven't seen the film! *Spoilers*



    Addendum: I want to make it clear: I'm not trying to associate Beethoven as a "Nazi", I'm just pointing out the historical relevance of Beethoven/Hitler. As Alex screamed out in Clockwork Orange "Beethoven only wanted to make lovely music!"


    Your thoughts?

    Thanks.

    RVWfan.

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    Super Moderator mamascarlatti's Avatar
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    "The film makers decide to play Hitler's favourite composer"
    Cripes, that was the funniest sounding Wagner I've ever heard.
    Natalie

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    Senior Member Aksel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mamascarlatti View Post
    Cripes, that was the funniest sounding Wagner I've ever heard.
    Or Bruckner for that matter.

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    Junior Member petrarch's Avatar
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    "Vaughan Williams wasn't British enough?" Unfortunately for him Beethoven's 7th is on a totally different league and works immensely better in that sequence. And if you want to put your point across effectively, I suggest you learn how to write...

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    Quote Originally Posted by petrarch View Post
    "Vaughan Williams wasn't British enough?" Unfortunately for him Beethoven's 7th is on a totally different league and works immensely better in that sequence. ...
    *facepalm*

    Beethoven's 7th is used in EVERYTHING.

    There really has to be a moratorium on that piece of music, it's like the Helvetica font. Overused.
    NightHawk likes this.

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    I was also a bit surprised at the Beethoven 7th; I like your Vaughan Williams suggestion - it seems to be entirely appropriate.

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    Senior Member Crudblud's Avatar
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    I think that using a big name German composer in a moment of British triumph actually speaks of how great music transcends such a loathsome concept as national exclusivity.
    Last edited by Crudblud; Jan-15-2012 at 17:33.
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    Senior Member ComposerOfAvantGarde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by petrarch View Post
    "Vaughan Williams wasn't British enough?"
    I know. They should have used "Living Toys" by Thomas Adès.

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    Senior Member Vaneyes's Avatar
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    What's the beef, rvwfan? Both German heritage and Nazi sympathizing are part of the Royals history.
    kv466 and NightHawk like this.

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    Senior Member Amfibius's Avatar
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    Perhaps we should also remember that the Windsors have German blood in them. If I recall correctly, their German ancestry is more recent than Beethoven.

    In any case ... who cares. If we went to war with the Soviet Union, it would not stop me from enjoying Prokofiev, Shostakovich, Glinka, Glazunov, Borodin, Scriabin, or any of the others. I would happily still read Dostoevsky and Tolstoy.
    Polednice likes this.

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    Senior Member Vaneyes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amfibius View Post
    Perhaps we should also remember that the Windsors have German blood in them. If I recall correctly, their German ancestry is more recent than Beethoven....
    Is there an echo in here?

    Earlier, 1714.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crudblud View Post
    I think that using a big name German composer in a moment of British triumph actually speaks of how great music transcends such a loathsome concept as national exclusivity.
    Exactly. Beethoven's music is defined by its humanity, not its nationality, and we are all human.

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    Senior Member Vaneyes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polednice View Post
    Exactly. Beethoven's music is defined by its humanity, not its nationality, and we are all human.
    And if we are to take the film's director, editor, and composer at their word, they did just that.

    Tom Hooper, Director--"Tariq Anwar my brilliant film editor chose Beethoven's 7th. The first time he showed me his assembly cut of the speech, he used the 7th. When Alexandre Desplat our composer joined us I was fully expecting him to suggest composing something to replace it - instead he defended the choice arguing eloquently that Beethoven exists in our public consciousness in a way that helps elevate the status of the final speech to the status of a public, global event, in a way that film score which is always internal to the movie it is created for cannot."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaneyes View Post
    And if we are to take the film's director, editor, and composer at their word, they did just that.

    Tom Hooper, Director--"Tariq Anwar my brilliant film editor chose Beethoven's 7th.
    The first time he showed me his assembly cut of the speech, he used the 7th. When Alexandre Desplat our composer joined us I was fully expecting him to suggest composing something to replace it - instead he defended the choice arguing eloquently that Beethoven exists in our public consciousness in a way that helps elevate the status of the final speech to the status of a public, global event, in a way that film score which is always internal to the movie it is created for cannot."
    Would the director have said the same if Tariq Anwar used "Whoomp there it is!"?

    The 7th is used in everything. The film was about the King of Britain
    ...not the "King of the World" so you'd think Britain would have a classical
    composer to suit the scene? Beethoven was used because everyone heard the 7th,
    so using it...the viewer wouldn't have to 'strain' to figure out what other
    piece of music is being used.

    The 7th truly has earned the term "Public Domain" if ever there was a case for royalty free.

    I felt the movie was lame and it really was nothing more than
    "Dapper porn" for those women who love watching "Mad Men' and read
    "50 shades of grey". Do a basic search on twitterfeeds
    regarding Colin Firth and you'll see what I mean.

    Here's the video again same scene, but with Vaughan Williams.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPqw_b-Pm-Y
    Last edited by rvwfan; Sep-03-2012 at 12:56.

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