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  #16 (permalink)  
Old May-07-2007, 00:45
Evan Roberts Offline
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It would seem the mechanics of the piano's hammers are more complicated than I first thought. My apologies, will post more tomorrow when I understand the full implications.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old May-07-2007, 02:54
Manuel Offline
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Quote:
It would seem the mechanics of the piano's hammers are more complicated than I first thought. My apologies, will post more tomorrow when I understand the full implications.
Don't take me wrong. It is in the last consideration a mechanical system: you press the keys, they pull some things, and attack the strings. But the performer is who is making that happen: if you play with the pad of the fingers the attack is mitigated, producing a softer tone; the opposite happens if you hit the keys with the extreme of the finger. It may sound lame, but really makes a difference.

Regarding pedal, some pianists like Gelber have a magnificent legato, so they use pedalling not to tie notes*, but to define sonority.

* I suppose not a single good pianist does that awful thing.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old May-07-2007, 14:49
Evan Roberts Offline
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Quote:
Don't take me wrong. It is in the last consideration a mechanical system: you press the keys, they pull some things, and attack the strings. But the performer is who is making that happen: if you play with the pad of the fingers the attack is mitigated, producing a softer tone; the opposite happens if you hit the keys with the extreme of the finger. It may sound lame, but really makes a difference.
Manuel, my sceptical view came not from my own experiences at the piano, which as you guessed amount to very little, but from having the same discussion with some other pianists and a piano technician.

But you made me rethink my position, and from reading more on the issue It would seem that some analysis has been done on the influence of different key strikes upon the motion of the piano hammers. Different strokes cause particular degrees of vibration within the hammer shaft, which in theory could change the sound spectrum produced when the hammer head hits the strings. I've also read that Kawai have done some experiments measuring shaft flex and the tone quality.

For those interested in the debate it is worth reading this lecture on the subject:
http://www.speech.kth.se/music/5_lec...t/motions.html

also the following chapter of the book Piano Fundamentals:
http://www.pianofundamentals.com/boo...01_03_01_01_02

Edit - a more focused article on the same discussion:
http://www3.sympatico.ca/norma.barr/...o_playing.html

Last edited by Evan Roberts; May-07-2007 at 15:29. Reason: added new link
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old May-07-2007, 19:14
Manuel Offline
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Quote:
But you made me rethink my position, and from reading more on the issue It would seem that some analysis has been done on the influence of different key strikes upon the motion of the piano hammers. Different strokes cause particular degrees of vibration within the hammer shaft, which in theory could change the sound spectrum produced when the hammer head hits the strings. I've also read that Kawai have done some experiments measuring shaft flex and the tone quality.

For those interested in the debate it is worth reading this lecture on the subject:
http://www.speech.kth.se/music/5_lec...t/motions.html

also the following chapter of the book Piano Fundamentals:
http://www.pianofundamentals.com/boo...01_03_01_01_02

Edit - a more focused article on the same discussion:
http://www3.sympatico.ca/norma.barr/...o_playing.html
Thanks for the links. I'll read them as soon as I'm available (I have a microeconomics exam in about 60 minutes...)
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old May-07-2007, 21:04
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Azathoth Offline
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Well, if you don't have any idea what's going on with the music, the name really doesn't matter. A layman won't be able to hear much of a difference between me playing something, and Wilhelm Kempff playing something, probably just that Kempff would hit all the right notes the first time around.

The people here probably couldn't tell the difference between Anthrax and Slayer, but that doesn't mean that they aren't different.

People have different interpretations of music according to their different styles. I don't really know what I'm doing, but I have heard differences in the way that I play, compared to the way my painistically inclined friends play. I tend to play technically very well, but I still need a lot of work loosening up. Whereas my closest friend is very relaxed at the keyboard, but her technique really sucks.

This translates in to professionals with talent and skill and practice, too. There are some pianists who work with a certain composer's style better.

For example, I personally think that Gould is perfect for Bach, but I'm not so fond of when he plays Beethoven. That's just my opinion, don't want to start any arguments, but that's an example.

Music, like any other love, requires the right chemistry.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old May-08-2007, 00:24
Manuel Offline
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For example, I personally think that Gould is perfect for Bach, but I'm not so fond of when he plays Beethoven.
Agree a bit. His introduction to the Beethoven's fifth concerto is humorous.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old May-15-2007, 03:19
Manuel Offline
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Here you have two different views on Chopin's third sonata. You can't say both pianists sound the same.

Is not the last movement of this sonata one of the bests parts of piano repertoire? (Hmmm... thread idea...)

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