Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 68
Like Tree50Likes

Thread: I cannot understand why some who loves Wagner would dislike Mahler

  1. #1
    Senior Member DavidMahler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    653

    Default I cannot understand why some who loves Wagner would dislike Mahler

    Mahler extracted from Wagner so much of what made Wagner's writing great and then improved it. Gave it much more form, more counterpoint, more emotion, and toward the end of his life, more dissonance. He also removed the distraction of opera and got to the music much more directly. In my eyes, Wagner is Copernicus and Mahler is Galileo.
    Last edited by DavidMahler; Jan-22-2012 at 18:44.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Ukko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Vermont
    Posts
    5,364

    Default

    Can you figure out why I dislike Wagner's music and like Mahler's? Could help your ciphering.
    moody likes this.
    Experience teaches you to recognize a mistake when you've made it again.
    - anonymous

  3. #3
    Senior Member Amfibius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    165

    Default

    Hitler loved Wagner but disliked Mahler. I think I know why. One would hope that such racists aren't around any more, but ... who knows!

  4. #4
    Senior Member Crudblud's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    2,462
    Blog Entries
    13

    Default

    I agree that the drama in Wagner can get in the way of the wonderful music, the abominable Tannhäuser being a prime example, but I really don't think there is that much similarity musically between the two composers.
    NightHawk likes this.

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    934

    Default

    There are others who cannot understand why someone would love Mahler but not Wagner.

    This argument cuts both ways.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Couchie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    2,206

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidMahler View Post
    Mahler extracted from Wagner so much of what made Wagner's writing great and then improved it.
    No.

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidMahler View Post
    Gave it much more form,
    A bad thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidMahler View Post
    more counterpoint,
    Who gives a ****.

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidMahler View Post
    more emotion,
    No.

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidMahler View Post
    and toward the end of his life, more dissonance.
    A bad thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidMahler View Post
    He also removed the distraction of opera and got to the music much more directly.
    He removed the thrust of the drama, the humanity of the passion, and the literary critical interest.

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidMahler View Post
    In my eyes, Wagner is Copernicus and Mahler is Galileo.
    In my eyes, Wagner is a mountain and Mahler is a mountain goat.

  7. #7
    Senior Member DavidMahler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    653

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Couchie View Post
    In my eyes, Wagner is a mountain and Mahler is a mountain goat.
    lol, but Lisztian shouldn't have liked it
    Lisztian likes this.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Lisztian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Geelong, Australia
    Posts
    792

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidMahler View Post
    lol, but Lisztian shouldn't have liked it
    I actually disagree with him, but I always tend to laugh at Couchie's posts...I'm a huge Mahler fan. I wouldn't call one better than the other though. I love them both.
    Last edited by Lisztian; Jan-22-2012 at 22:15.
    nefigah and violadude like this.

  9. #9
    Senior Member DavidMahler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    653

    Default

    By the way couchie,

    Mahler's music is inward, specifically the final works - where he wrote his life, his struggle, he wrote himself. Wagner was writing plays.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Lukecash12's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    2,091

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidMahler View Post
    By the way couchie,

    Mahler's music is inward, specifically the final works - where he wrote his life, his struggle, he wrote himself. Wagner was writing plays.
    Blahdeeblahdeeblah Apples and oranges, my friend. Plays can be very evocative and humanistic as well.
    "Your mathematics are correct, but your physics are abominable..." Einstein

  11. #11
    Senior Member DavidMahler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    653

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lukecash12 View Post
    Blahdeeblahdeeblah Apples and oranges, my friend. Plays can be very evocative and humanistic as well.
    Yes and no, but not to me.

  12. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    934

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by brianwalker View Post
    There are others who cannot understand why someone would love Mahler but not Wagner.

    This argument cuts both ways.
    Guys, guys.

    http://mahler.universaledition.com/d...gustav-mahler/

    Daniel Barenboim loves Wagner, used to hate Mahler.
    NightHawk likes this.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Sid James's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    9,002
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default

    Many reasons, as Hilltroll suggests, it could be any reason depending on the individual listener.

    The thing I can think of is that Wagner was telling these epic stories, not really related to his own life, whereas Mahler was essentially telling his own story (very autobiographical).

    Obvious elephant in the room is that Wagner mainly did opera, while Mahler's forte was the symphony. They are different things, though both of them broke down conventions of these genres, thus the stricter boundaries between them of the past really began to vanish during their time & in their music. Eg. Wagner's gesamkunstwerk thing kind of has a counterpart in Mahler view of the symphony containing the whole world. But they just did things their own way, that's it I guess...
    Last edited by Sid James; Jan-22-2012 at 23:40.
    Vaneyes likes this.
    Contrasts and Connections in Music

    "When reason and instinct are reconciled, there will be no higher appeal" - Rameau

  14. #14
    Senior Member Lukecash12's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    2,091

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sid James View Post
    Many reasons, as Hilltroll suggests, it could be any reason depending on the individual listener.

    The thing I can think of is that Wagner was telling these epic stories, not really related to his own life, whereas Mahler was essentially telling his own story (very autobiographical).

    Obvious elephant in the room is that Wagner mainly did opera, while Mahler's forte was the symphony. They are different things, though both of them broke down conventions of these genres, thus the stricter boundaries between them of the past really began to vanish during their time & in their music. Eg. Wagner's gesamkunstwerk thing kind of has a counterpart in Mahler view of the symphony containing the whole world. But they just did things their own way, that's it I guess...
    Epics are impersonal? Just like oratorios and masses, I think they can be very personal.
    "Your mathematics are correct, but your physics are abominable..." Einstein

  15. #15
    Senior Member DavidMahler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    653

    Default

    I don't hear truth (whatever it may be) in Wagner's music. I hear every other great artistic miracle in Wagner tho.

Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Jacques Loussier & his trio, do anyone loves it?
    By Rachmaninov in forum Non-Classical Music
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: Jun-20-2014, 08:23
  2. How some people can dislike Stravinsky's neoclassical period?
    By aleazk in forum Classical Music Discussion
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: Dec-15-2011, 16:41
  3. Wagner vs Mahler
    By DavidMahler in forum Classical Music Discussion
    Replies: 43
    Last Post: Nov-07-2011, 12:02
  4. Inspired by Mahler/Wagner/Bruckner
    By MusicForLife in forum Today's Composers
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: Jul-15-2011, 00:57
  5. For everyone who loves music
    By ENA in forum Community Forum
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: May-16-2009, 04:12

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •