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That's actually the correct answer, brusque as it is. Except Phillips had a part in the scam too.
SACD is fine for a multi channel format, but with two channel audio, there's no audible difference between SACD and regular old CDs.
That's actually the correct answer, brusque as it is. Except Phillips had a part in the scam too.
SACD is fine for a multi channel format, but with two channel audio, there's no audible difference between SACD and regular old CDs.
I personally had NOTHING to do with it ok?Originally Posted by bigshot
Get a DVD player or something
Have they released audio only DVDs of classical music in 5:1 formats like DTS, etc? It would be good to try. I never had an amp and a SACD player that could work together for multichannel. I chucked the SACD in the closet. No more of that.
I don't know. I think some albums were re-released in DVD-audio, like Pink Floyd for example. As for classical, i can't say. Honestly, no multichannel release has ever piqued my interest anyway. Even for movies i'm quite satisfied with 5.1 downmixed to 2.1.
Sorry, but it's definitely not "the correct answer" in the context of this discussion, regardless of one's opinion of the SACD format in general. And the reason is exactly the one you expressed earlier -- the mastering. The Esoteric discs are a new remaster of a classic recording that has had, frankly, a chequered history on CD. As a new remaster (and one not available on Redbook CD), it is going to have an "audible difference" (and, in the opinion of many, has an "audible improvement") over both earlier CD versions. Even if you hold that an SACD and a Redbook CD of the same mastering will sound the same, that is irrelevant in this case, because there is no such "Redbook CD of the same mastering," nor is there ever going to be one. You -- and I, for that matter -- may decry Esoteric's decision to make this SACD-only (although I think it probably was a limitation insisted upon by Decca to stave off competition with their own offerings), but its almost a certainty that the SACD set will sound different (and, once again, possibly better) than either of the CD releases -- and the supposed sonic advantages of the SACD format, or lack thereof, would have nothing to do with it.
Last edited by regnaDkciN; Jul-26-2012 at 11:59.
Some hybrid SACDs have the same mastering on both the SACD layer and the redbook, but not all. The first release of Solti's Ring was a straight transfer right off the masters with no attempt to digitally "sweeten" it. The second just had a small amount of noise reduction applied. This release will likely be the opposite approach.
Last edited by bigshot; Jul-26-2012 at 18:02.
It's possible that original CD transfers were inferior to the analogue recordings. They were of sufficient quality that Decca released them on their SET label series LPs. They were half-speed mastered like all SETs and Phase4. Almost anything quality that Decca did in those days was half-speed mastered. That's why many have found their way into "Audophile" lists.Hi, I've read how Solti's Ring, even despite Decca's James Lock's 1997 remaster, still doesn't sound like it should; is too compressed. I've enjoyed the set, but I can totally see what they're saying; there's potential for a much larger soundscape, something to really blow your lid off.
Jack Lawson from Music Web hails the new CD/SACD hybrid remaster from the Japanese label: Esoteric. http://www.musicweb-international.co...SD90021-34.htm
It makes my mouth water!I would LOVE to have this. But it costs $800. Also I'd have to invest in an SACD player to really get the most out of it. If only I was a millionaire!
Has anyone here heard this set? Is it true BLISS?
I suspect this new release is principally for the SACD-greedy Japanese market. They love their SACDs and limited releases. I have a few Esoteric one-CD releases and they're all right but nothing to go wild over. Hopefully for people queueing up for this set will be better rewarded. I mean, EMI recently remastered some old Furtwangler mono recordings in SACD. They're about £30 each. They aren't THAT much better than the first CD releases (which were also from Japan incidentally).
Decca are also releasing the set in the UK as CDs with a lot of extras including Deryck Cooke's talk for a shade under £200 from MDT. To me it's one of those aggravating things that so ANNOYS me about the music biz.
Anyone who remembers decca's first CD reissues of the Ring LP boxes will remember the sets were priced in proportion to the LP sets. So if the LP set had 4 discs you paid a 4 x whatever CD price even though the CD set might only have 3CDs. Eventually they scrapped that - it did them no good commercially.
But it's a rip off. When the music biz stamps on pirate bay for starving creative artists by "stealing" their work they never bother to think about how they rip off "consumers". The Japanese are suckers for it. They'll buy any limited, special release, so do many in the UK. The majors don't mind coming out with, in this case, yet another boxed reissue of Wagner's Ring tempting customers with super deluxe - plus a different version in Japan which is going to cost collectors dearly. Older folk will have replaced their LPs with CDs and may now consider super CDs or SACD. One thing's for sure: with classical music the CD will never die. It's too good a cash cow. Customers (or consumers as they now call us) can't just swap and pay for a new medium only, they have to pay for the music all over again - complete rip off.
Last edited by Frasier; Jul-26-2012 at 23:18.
Just for the record: the "new release" is actually a couple of years old, was limited to 1,000 copies, and is now long out-of-print, as opposed to the upcoming Decca set to be released at the end of August, mentioned below.
The set in question consists of fourteen remastered CDs of the cycle, the two-CD "Introduction," a previously-unreleased CD of other Wagner works, the DVD "The Golden Ring," and a Blu-Ray of the entire cycle in 24/96 sound, for those who think that provides a sonic advantage. That, plus the long-out-of-print Culshaw "Ring Resounding" book and a selection of other supplemental printed material, much of it not available before. Personally, the price tag isn't too far out of line just for the CDs, DVD, and Blu-Ray; add in the Culshaw book and the other material, and I find it hard to consider it a "rip-off." And, if you just want the CDs of the new remaster without all the extra material, Decca will be releasing it in a box set with all of Solti's other Wagner music drama recordings (Tristan, Meistersinger, Lohengrin, Parsifal, Dutchman, and Tannhäuser) for a total of 90 Euros. About as far from a rip-off as you can get, that!
i don't know about that. If you check out the Amazon top 100 classical music titles, you'll find a good number of digital downloads in there. The market is changing.
It seems I can neither edit or delete my post you quoted so I wrote to the moderators asking them to delete it.Personally, the price tag isn't too far out of line just for the CDs, DVD, and Blu-Ray; add in the Culshaw book and the other material, and I find it hard to consider it a "rip-off." And, if you just want the CDs of the new remaster without all the extra material, Decca will be releasing it in a box set with all of Solti's other Wagner music drama recordings (Tristan, Meistersinger, Lohengrin, Parsifal, Dutchman, and Tannhäuser) for a total of 90 Euros. About as far from a rip-off as you can get, that!
I can't tolerate this sort of gratuitous contentiousness. I posted out of interest. The behaviour of the music industry is known to be a rip off. If you are a producer or engineer then I could understand your attitude but something tells me you aren't, being instead a good consumer unable to see outside the matrix.
Last edited by Frasier; Jul-27-2012 at 19:23.
Contentiousness is stock in trade in internet forums!
Indeed it is. Well, I did say it's too good a cash cow. Once it ceases to fulfil that role it'll be gone - or at least, seriously marginalised. There's still a band of collectors in the US and Japan. People in the US do buy these vast boxed sets having already acquired most of the individual CDs, some after buying the LPs a long time ago. And in the Far East, all these reworkings, HQCDs, Bluspecs, Esoterics, limited editions, do sell. To the Japanese it isn't music, it's business.
Looking at Amazon's top 100: It is just possible that I might choose a title or two (were it not for BBC3's musical wallpaper when I'm at home). But 98% are of no interest. I mean.... Ein Audi? Ok, so he has a following!
Two things surprised me: 1, the number of titles that didn't offer an MP3; 2, the number of titles for which MP3s were priced higher than the disc. Could be some people are too desperate to wait...
I posted about it in another thread, but there's a series of mp3 download sets on Amazon called Rise of the Masters and 99 Essential Masterpieces organized by composer. They're produced by a company called X5 and they sell for between 99 cents and $7 a set of 100 tracks. Many of the recordings on these sets are excellent performances culled from the BIS label. Even if there's only one or two things in the collection that interest you, the price can't be beat. The exact same tracks are available under the BIS titles for full price.
The major labels haven't realized the impact the iTunes store and Amazon's digital downloads have made on the market. They're still operating on the same business model they've been working with for decades. But adventurous labels like X5 are proving there's a lot of money to be made by moving beyond physical formats. I read that the top two classical music publishers on the Billboard charts are Universal and X5.
The times they are-a changin'!
Last edited by bigshot; Jul-27-2012 at 20:56.
Yup. It's so much pillockry - good, as it provides a safety valve for those unable to cope face-to-face and the cowards who wouldn't dare! but bad as.....well. aficionados of "classical" music are a fairly rare breed so it's surprising they don't leap up to support each other. I'm having an evening off from a music summer school and the good has been the amiability of young composers (plus or minus minor neurotic fits!). Quite different from the internet.
But that's where it's at: making music together. Only gets cut-throat when money comes into it!
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