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Thread: Wagner with English subtitles?

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegendesLicht View Post
    I have a suspicion Wagner would want everyone to learn German - if only to approach his operas.
    I agree. Can you see Wagner ever approving of "The Ring in English"? Ridiculous!!

    I am a purist regarding most music and I believe 100% that opera should only be performed in its original language.

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    Senior Member Florestan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hpowders View Post
    I agree. Can you see Wagner ever approving of "The Ring in English"? Ridiculous!!

    I am a purist regarding most music and I believe 100% that opera should only be performed in its original language.

    "I hope you will see to it that my works are performed in English; only in this way can they be intimately understood by an English speaking audience."
    --Richard Wagner Oct 22 1877

    http://www.the-wagnerian.com/2013/04...glish-why.html
    The junk merchant doesn't sell his product to the consumer, he sells the consumer to his product. He does not improve and simplify his merchandise. He degrades and simplifies the client.

    William S. Burroughs

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  5. #18
    Senior Member Pugg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Florestan View Post
    "I hope you will see to it that my works are performed in English; only in this way can they be intimately understood by an English speaking audience."
    --Richard Wagner Oct 22 1877

    http://www.the-wagnerian.com/2013/04...glish-why.html
    I would say: touché.
    First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
    "Mahatma Gandhi"

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  7. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Florestan View Post
    "I hope you will see to it that my works are performed in English; only in this way can they be intimately understood by an English speaking audience."
    --Richard Wagner Oct 22 1877

    http://www.the-wagnerian.com/2013/04...glish-why.html
    I don't believe he was sober, saying something that dumb.

    Either that, or another example of fake news.
    Last edited by hpowders; Apr-21-2017 at 15:53.

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  9. #20
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    Anybody who goes to an opera performance and doesn't do serious libretto homework before attending, and spends the evening reading the supertitles or subtitles might as well have been sitting in front of a phonograph instead of a stage.

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  11. #21
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    When an opera is translated to a different language, problems will develop because the translated words no longer musically fit as the original language words do.

    To have me believe that Wagner would approve his operas in English, a language so different from the original German, with all the musical problems that would create, is not rational.
    Last edited by hpowders; Apr-21-2017 at 17:03.

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  13. #22
    Senior Member Granate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hpowders View Post
    Anybody who goes to an opera performance and doesn't do serious libretto homework before attending, and spends the evening reading the supertitles or subtitles might as well have been sitting in front of a phonograph instead of a stage.
    Eeeh? I go to watch operas like they were films. I want to know the plot and words in the moment.

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    Please don't tell me the ending of Parsifal. I'm watching Act III tonight.
    Last edited by Granate; Apr-21-2017 at 16:16.

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  17. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Granate View Post
    Eeeh? I go to watch operas like they were films. I want to know the plot and words in the moment.


    Leave opera alone! It should only be performed as written, as the composer intended!
    Last edited by hpowders; Apr-21-2017 at 16:18.

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  19. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Granate View Post
    Please don't tell me the ending of Parsifal. I'm watching Act III tonight.
    The witch pushes Hansel in the oven.

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  21. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by hpowders View Post
    Everybody knows that when an opera is translated to a different language, problems will develop because the translated words no longer musically fit as the original language words do.

    To have me believe that Wagner would approve his operas in English, a language so different from the original German, with all the musical problems that would create, is insane.
    I'm watching Parsifal with Spanish subtitles and, well it's not German poetry, but I find the direct translation as really pleasing, way more artistic than when I watch Idomeneo or La Traviata.

  22. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Granate View Post
    I'm watching Parsifal with Spanish subtitles and, well it's not German poetry, but I find the direct translation as really pleasing, way more artistic than when I watch Idomeneo or La Traviata.
    My point is if you are watching the subtitles, you are missing the opera.

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  24. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by hpowders View Post
    My point is if you are watching the subtitles, you are missing the opera.
    I'm not going to deny that, I'm new to full-length operas. I guess my perception will change over the years when I find out more about the topic rather than the first exposure.

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  26. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Granate View Post
    I'm watching Parsifal with Spanish subtitles and, well it's not German poetry, but I find the direct translation as really pleasing, way more artistic than when I watch Idomeneo or La Traviata.
    You are lucky you have Spanish subtitles, we have to do with English/ German / Spanish, no Dutch.
    First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
    "Mahatma Gandhi"

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  28. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Granate View Post
    I'm not going to deny that, I'm new to full-length operas. I guess my perception will change over the years when I find out more about the topic rather than the first exposure.
    I'm giving you two hours to do your homework!!!!

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