Thread: Am I going too far about being a musician? (Warning long read)

My experience is different - I never heard of a wind player getting to grade 8 on the violin in 2 years. But anyway end of debate - good luck to you.

Originally Posted by Strordio

Hi, I'm only 14 years old and I'm wondering. Am I going too far about being a musician? I started to really like orchestra music and the Violin Family when I turned 13. But what happens if this is the wrong thing to do? I can't find anything else greater than music. So it may be my passion. But people have started at the age of 3 and 4 and 5. So I may not be born to play, I may be. And my other relatives listen to far more music than I do. I was thinking about joining an orchestra when I grow up but like I said I may be going too far. Cause I don't want to be like just because I love this instrument doesn't mean I have to play it. I just had to get this in before I go higher in my age so I could start as soon as possible. But I may be going too far on this I may not. It kind of hurts me that I don't listen to much music as much as my relatives do. Help me.

Just 1 post since April...?!

Maybe you've not gone far enough lol.

Most teenagers are very passionate about something - like learning the violin. The next year, you might want to be a vet.

It's great that you have the flexibility to try on different hats - everyone seems to encourage you to do this. Perhaps, try different hats, and keep different doors open too. When I was your age, I was *certain* I didn't want to play the flute any more. That was it: classical music sucked, and I wanted to be in a boy band. Now that I've grown up, I realise that classical music doesn't suck and I really really wish I was in a boy band

Originally Posted by Jaws

In the UK it is not unusual for children to pass grade 8 violin with distinction at ages 10 and 11. It really is an exam for beginners.

It is no accident that many of the young solo performers are violinists. It just takes longer to reach the same standard on other instruments because many of them have extreme problems that take years to overcome. The problem with the oboe is the reed.

I grew up with the assumption that children learnt wind instruments like the flute later, since this required their lungs to mature in a different way than say, the recorder (the flauto dolce - or soft/sweet flute). Not so sure I'd knock the ABRSM as an exam for beginners - the Grade 8 flute repertoire includes both Grade 8 contemporary work by James Rae; baroque classical sonatas by Danzi, Bach and Quantz, which are the virtuoso standards in flute music, recorded by the likes of Marilyn Mooney, Jed Wentz, Emmanuel Pahud, James Galway.

Being able to sight read and play Grade 8 music in any key is a very useful skill. I used to be able to do this, and now, I'm really doing a tortoise crawl pace just to read 7 flats in the key signature. Most band musicians I've ever come across cannot sight read to this standard, and played fixed repertoire, or in diatonic keys (flutes of course).

You're spot on though - the world of an instrument opens up vastly after the basics are sorted out. Some of us are lucky to have that foundation. One of my heroes is Suzanne Teng, from the University of California. She graduated playing flute, including alto flute, and instead of confining herself to fixed known stock standard classical repertoire, has gone on a world flute discovery, absorbing different cultural flute influences, and different musical styles. It's very hard to do this kind of 'fusion' without a formal training. Similarly - late adult starters, with no background in music, often find the task rather daunting, particularly if self-taught. One girl I met did her Grade 8 flute in a year, however was able to play other instruments before. In that respect, it's a bit like having the foundation blocks in position; everything thereafter makes sense.

Originally Posted by Head_case

I grew up with the assumption that children learnt wind instruments like the flute later, since this required their lungs to mature in a different way than say, the recorder (the flauto dolce - or soft/sweet flute). Not so sure I'd knock the ABRSM as an exam for beginners - the Grade 8 flute repertoire includes both Grade 8 contemporary work by James Rae; baroque classical sonatas by Danzi, Bach and Quantz, which are the virtuoso standards in flute music, recorded by the likes of Marilyn Mooney, Jed Wentz, Emmanuel Pahud, James Galway.

Being able to sight read and play Grade 8 music in any key is a very useful skill. I used to be able to do this, and now, I'm really doing a tortoise crawl pace just to read 7 flats in the key signature. Most band musicians I've ever come across cannot sight read to this standard, and played fixed repertoire, or in diatonic keys (flutes of course).

You're spot on though - the world of an instrument opens up vastly after the basics are sorted out. Some of us are lucky to have that foundation. One of my heroes is Suzanne Teng, from the University of California. She graduated playing flute, including alto flute, and instead of confining herself to fixed known stock standard classical repertoire, has gone on a world flute discovery, absorbing different cultural flute influences, and different musical styles. It's very hard to do this kind of 'fusion' without a formal training. Similarly - late adult starters, with no background in music, often find the task rather daunting, particularly if self-taught. One girl I met did her Grade 8 flute in a year, however was able to play other instruments before. In that respect, it's a bit like having the foundation blocks in position; everything thereafter makes sense.

In terms of general music making and education grade 8 in the UK is an exam that beginners take. The easiest part of playing any instrument is getting fingers around notes, however many there are and at whatever speed they have to be played at.

Very skilled musicians learn the fingering first and then spend a lot of time on all the other aspects of interpretation. If you start from the idea that not all beats in a bar have the same stress you can soon see that it is very important to be able to play all notes as the player wants to. So on a flute high notes and low notes in the same phrase might have to be the same dynamic, or the low notes might have to be louder than the high notes regardless of how high they are. Someone taking grade 8 will not be expected to be able to play very high notes very quietly, or to be able to play all the stresses in the right part of the bar, because when taking the grade 8 exam it is realised that someone will not have enough skill to do this. However playing an instrument properly does require this extra skill, along with playing all the notes so that the tone of them is the same, being able to tongue repeated notes so that they are all exactly the same length, start and finish exactly at the same time as each other, and are exactly the same dynamic, and that they are also all the same pitch. A skilled player can do this on any note, at any dynamic. A skilled player can also play completely even fingering on any moving passage of notes. They can also put the stresses on the right notes (this is required for real phrasing) They can play cresc and dims on notes without going sharp or flat. In fact a very skilled player can tell their instrument exactly what they want it to play and nothing happens by accident it is all controlled by the player. To be able to do this takes a lot of practise. Compared to this amount of skill grade 8 is nothing, it is just right at the beginning when someone starts. A retired professional player I know refers to it as nothing, just a start.

I have found that although professional players and ex top conservatoire players in the UK know this about grade 8,(that it is a beginners exam) the level of adult music education is generally so poor that many adult amateur players think that passing grade 8 is something to really aspire to. They don't realise that it is an exam for beginners. There are many amateur groups doing concerts in the UK where they advertise for people to have passed this beginners exam. I am sure that many of them do not realise that with grade 8 skill level there is no chance that their group can get anywhere near what the composer of most classical music intended. They just do not have the skill required to play it. The best they can do is to get the notes right the most basic part of playing a piece of music. In my experience of many amateur orchestra concerts the phrasing is played in reverse of what is written. This happens because the player doesn't have enough control over what they are telling their instrument to play. However I can't blame the players for this lack of knowledge because no one ever seems to be interested in providing good quality adult music education that explains what is needed in terms of skill level to play music. In London where I live people continue to start amateur orchestras, but the level of adult education for music players seems to be as low as ever.

Adults are not children. They need to know the truth about grade exams and orchestral playing skills. I am sure that if many of them knew what a low standard they actually are they would be mortified that not only have they expected people to listen to them but also to pay to listen to them. "Ignorance is bliss."