Thread: Does anybody actually like Stockhausen's Helicopter String Quartet?

Originally Posted by aleazk

For me the discussion is if it actually is music or 'conceptual art'. Yeah, yeah, I know that all art has a conceptual content, etc. But when I see it, I appreciate more the concept of a string quartet distributed in helicopters rather than enjoying the sound of it with the same intensity with which I enjoy some more 'conventional' pieces (even in the 'avant-garde'). So, for me, it's pure conceptual art. Of course, I'm aware that some people consider it a real piece of music, like any other piece of music, I have no problem with that, it's a valid opinion, in fact, they have said that they enjoy the sound of it in the same way in which they enjoy the sound of any other 'conventional' piece of music. In any case, my point is that the debate about if it is music or conceptual art is not closed at all.

I disagree, because personally I don't really think any work of music can be written off as conceptual art, and not truly music. Every piece of music, even the most ridiculous or bizarre things out there (things like John Cage's 4'33'') are made up of sounds. 4'33'' is made of sounds. They are chance sounds, and alot of the reason people like it is because of the ideas behind it, rather than the piece itself, so I can understand maybe calling it a piece of music AND a piece of conceptual art at the same time, but even the weirdest, most abstract pieces are made of organized sounds. They aren't just abstract ideas floating in the air.

Originally Posted by BurningDesire

Yes :O I am also a homo sapien.

I would even go as far to say you're a homo sapien sapien

Originally Posted by Cnote11

I would even go as far to say you're a homo sapien sapien

Oh my!~ You are forward~

Originally Posted by BurningDesire

I disagree, because personally I don't really think any work of music can be written off as conceptual art, and not truly music. Every piece of music, even the most ridiculous or bizarre things out there (things like John Cage's 4'33'') are made up of sounds. 4'33'' is made of sounds. They are chance sounds, and alot of the reason people like it is because of the ideas behind it, rather than the piece itself, so I can understand maybe calling it a piece of music AND a piece of conceptual art at the same time, but even the weirdest, most abstract pieces are made of organized sounds. They aren't just abstract ideas floating in the air.

Well, yes, I suppose you can say it's conceptual art inside the realm of music, in the same way there's conceptual art in the realm of the visual arts. After all, the HQ indeed takes sound as a part of the whole concept. But since there's more, the conceptual part of the quartet inside a helicopter, this makes it also conceptual art. I any case, personally, I enjoy more the conceptual side, but that is related to my tastes in music. Also I enjoy a lot the 'humour' in the situation, we must admit that the situation is indeed quite bizarre. If you see the videos, the players try to have the same 'solemnity' as if they were playing at a concert hall, which makes the situation comical and surreal, which I also enjoy. But the actual sound doesn't appeal to me.

Originally Posted by aleazk

Well, yes, I suppose you can say it's conceptual art inside the realm of music, in the same way there's conceptual art in the realm of the visual arts. After all, the HQ indeed takes sound as a part of the whole concept. But since there's more, the conceptual part of the quartet inside a helicopter, this makes it also conceptual art. I any case, personally, I enjoy more the conceptual side, but that is related to my tastes in music.

I just don't see why that makes it 'conceptual' to you. I mean, is Haydn's Farewell Symphony conceptual art because the musicians leave over the course of the finale? Is a Crumb piece conceptual because he uses amplified pianos, and he has the musician do many things unusual to them to cull unique sounds out of them?

I was just looking at the Birmingham première of Mittwoch, and it seems, sadly, that only the Helicopter String Quartet will be broadcast/streamed online. It is almost as disappointing as when much of Messiaen's music, including St. François d'Assise, was not broadcast on television during the 2008 Proms, which had a secondary function as a celebration of both his and Carter's centenary.

Originally Posted by BurningDesire

I just don't see why that makes it 'conceptual' to you. I mean, is Haydn's Farewell Symphony conceptual art because the musicians leave over the course of the finale? Is a Crumb piece conceptual because he uses amplified pianos, and he has the musician do many things unusual to them to cull unique sounds out of them?

Conceptual art is art in which the concept(s) or idea(s) involved in the work take precedence over traditional aesthetic and material concerns.

If you think that a string quartet in a helicopter doesn't question traditional aesthetic, we have very different notions of what traditional aesthetic in music means (at the time when the piece was conceived). Of course, today you can consider that the HQ is only music and not conceptual art because the kind of ideas suggested by the HG are now part of traditional aesthetic, but not at the time when the piece was conceived. Your suggestion is anachronic.
I also consider that part of Haydn's Farewell Symphony when the musicians leave over the course of the finale as a conceptual element and not a purely musical one.

Originally Posted by Jeremy Marchant

I'll let you know after I've seen it live next week...

OK, so now I've seen it live. A few points:

(1) it makes a huge difference hearing it quadraphonically, with each player separated in a different corner of a large space. This enabled the instrumental parts to be disentangled - or, rather, not to get entangled in the first place

(2) the live balance created by Ian Dearden was different to that on the Arditti quartet CD: the rotors less prominent in the mix, and softer sounding. As a result, the instrumental lines were further made clear

(3) seeing it as part of a show puts it in a context you don’t/can't get from a CD

(4) it would be very helpful to hear it without the rotors so that one could appreciate better the interplay of the parts (I'm not personally convinced the rotors add much anyway, but I get the point of it being a spectacle)

(5) given 1 and 2, it is much easier to hear it as music and, I think, as interesting music if you hear it under the conditions stipulated by the composer - it just doesn't transfer well to a stereo CD.

To answer the question, does anybody actually like Stockhausen’s Helicopter String Quartet, I would say I do. It is now much higher on my list of KS works ranked in order of how much I like them and, of course, when I listen to the CD next time, I will have the experience of the live performance to aid my listening.

What was really interesting about Thursday's performance of the whole of Mittwoch aus Licht was the realisation of how good the first two scenes are - World parliament, and Orchestra finalists - the performances were musically superb and the staging went further than I could have imagined possible (these are, after all, just concert works, really). As for the final scene, Michaelion, it seemed more obscure than ever.

The 22 August performance of the quartet is available until October here: www.thespace.org

Originally Posted by BurningDesire

...John Cage's 4'33'') are made up of sounds. 4'33'' is made of sounds. They are chance sounds, and alot of the reason people like it is because of the ideas behind it, rather than the piece itself, so I can understand maybe calling it a piece of music AND a piece of conceptual art at the same time, but even the weirdest, most abstract pieces are made of organized sounds. They aren't just abstract ideas floating in the air.

As I understand it, 4'33" is like a framework, a prescribed space in which sound can happen. To experience a 'performance' of this piece, one listens to whatever sounds may occur within the prescribed time of four minutes and thirty-three seconds. So really, the piece does not have any "sounds" in it until we hear whatever it is we hear. This is definitely a "passive" Eastern idea of "letting things happen" instead of the Western way of "composing," determining, and controlling sounds.

Originally Posted by Jeremy Marchant

The 22 August performance of the quartet is available until October here: www.thespace.org

I watched it. It felt more like a novelty circus.

I'm thinking Beethoven composed some seriously ugly-sounding music as often as not - and I don't hear anyone whining that it is unpalatable music or a whole era of gimmicks: that's what I'm thinking.

So, maybe it will take near two hundred years before we get people posting the Helicopter Quartet as one of their favorite pieces, alongside the Grosse Fuga of Beethoven's/

Originally Posted by HarpsichordConcerto

I watched it. It felt more like a novelty circus.

DId you watch the whole Mittwoch? If so, I agree it was like a circus at times. It was meant to be.

Is the complete Mittwoch available to watch anywhere? I'm rather disappointed that this The Space thing only has the quartet and nothing more.

Originally Posted by Jeremy Marchant

The 22 August performance of the quartet is available until October here: www.thespace.org

That presenter is very annoying.

Originally Posted by Crudblud

Is the complete Mittwoch available to watch anywhere? I'm rather disappointed that this The Space thing only has the quartet and nothing more.

It was streamed in full yesterday, but I only learnt that halfway through

Originally Posted by emiellucifuge

That presenter is very annoying.

Indeed. The only disappointment of the 6h 15m. But at least I got to ask a question so I will be on the recording when it is issued!