Thread: Ultrasonic 'mosquitoes' vs. teenage loiterers

Originally Posted by joen_cph

An admirable clarity of thought. Are you a Tory ?

I was, one does not vote for the socialists. But I now vote UKIP which is the anti European Union party.

Originally Posted by moody

OK we could keep you as a mascot. By the way where has your girlfriend disappeared to?

We're not starting this again. She's not my girlfriend.

Originally Posted by ComposerOfAvantGarde

We're not starting this again. She's not my girlfriend.

If you say so, but where is she ?

Originally Posted by moody

If you say so, but where is she ?

A few suburbs to the east of where I live.

Originally Posted by ComposerOfAvantGarde

We're not starting this again. She's not my girlfriend.

yeah, keep denying it. You know what they say, if you struggle, more quickly you will sink in the quicksand ...

Originally Posted by Philip

The maximum audio frequency of FM radio is 15kHz, which isn't really "ultrasonic". A standard CRT television produces a hiss just below 16kHz, which most people can hear to some extent. The normal hearing range is 20Hz to 20kHz. A high pitch such as 17kHz or above will be very faint at normal volumes, unless they pump it at 100+ dB; while a lower pitch will be audible to the majority of people...

Well they played the noise on the radio to a guy they had on the phone with them, and he said he couldn't hear it (he was over 25). But I get your point, you obviously know about radio technology.

...
The concept seems is a bit flawed, and I'm not even sure if exposing people to this noise is actually safe. Looks like somebody saw a juicy business opportunity, while somebody else was hungry for control; my two least favourite kinds of people

Well I don't think ultrasonic noise is the way to go. They should try other things first, like crooners, or classical or opera or whatever the loiterers don't like. Don't forget it's just businesses or school boards protecting their property from vandalism. Costs money to repair this stuff. Then burden on customers at the shop/mall and taxpayers of government which funds state run schools. Or any schools. The costs trickle down to YOU and ME. Ultimately.

There's a lot of hooning after dark in various carparks. It's like driving motorbikes or cars and doing burnouts (tyres skidding on the concrete). It's a culture, a youth culture, in many of our big cities. In any case, I think piping Barry Manilow, etc. has stopped or decreased this in many places. I think it's a good idea. I'm not sure ultrasonics are necessary.

Originally Posted by Sid James

Well they played the noise on the radio to a guy they had on the phone with them, and he said he couldn't hear it (he was over 25). But I get your point, you obviously know about radio technology.

Ha, that's even worst because most phones have a sampling rate of 8kHz or 16kHz, intended for voice only, with maximum audio frequencies of 4kHz and 8kHz, respectively.

I think it's funny that the Mosquito makers themselves advertise the device as "ultrasonic", when by definition, ultrasonic means outside the audible range, ie. 20kHz+... sounds like marketing B/S for an equally B/S product.

I apologize for going a bit off topic but do you think the pest controllers which are advertised to work on the same principle would actually work, the last couple of years we have been at war with the native Cockroach.

Originally Posted by Andante

I apologize for going a bit off topic but do you think the pest controllers which are advertised to work on the same principle would actually work, the last couple of years we have been at war with the native Cockroach.

I was thinking the same sort of thing although I don't currently have a cockroach problem, but living in an apartment block when one unit gets them all the units have them, even though the problem is not as severe as in coastal towns. I like to 'live green' so I do try the environment friendlier versions first. It's winter in South Africa now, and there is usually a rise in insect pests in summer, so if this works I may arm myself.

Originally Posted by Philip

...

I think it's funny that the Mosquito makers themselves advertise the device as "ultrasonic", when by definition, ultrasonic means outside the audible range, ie. 20kHz+... sounds like marketing B/S for an equally B/S product.

Well, could be they want to make a buck or whatever. Marketing hype is part of life now (unfortunately). Maybe the owners of places using these devices to deter young people congregating there and so on, they don't want to pay Barry Manilow or the estate of Frank Sinatra or whoever royalties. You never know. But often, things designed to save money end up backfiring and costing more.

Originally Posted by Sid James

I put this here as it's news, but not strictly concerning music (but sort of, some members here would consider this to be music, but that's another story).

Today in the news here, there are reports of ultrasonic tones being piped around areas where teenagers congregate to ward them off doing things like vandalism. This is occuring in Western Australia.

These tones can only be heard by people under 25. They are described as being very annoying and high frequency like mosquitoes.

Proponents of this - eg. business owners or school authorities where youths hang out after dark - say that they are just protecting their property from potential vandalism and the safety/comfort of the majority of people who use these facilities.

Civil liberties groups say it's an infringement of civil liberties.

I could not find a report on Western Australia, but found THIS report from Canada in 2008.

So, is this kind of thing being done around your neck of the woods. What do you think? We've had discussions about this before, but to do with classical music (or crooners, or jazz, etc.) being piped around these types of areas, not sounds specifically designed to ward off youths & teenagers.

I think they should play classical music, which appears to work. Plus CM might sooth the minds of angry commuters at times frustrated with delays or just having a bad day. (Just my two cents, I don't take the train normally and might only do so once or twice a year here in Sydney for special reasons. I enjoy a train ride and it would be very nice to have CM played at the stations while waiting).

I think a related issue is that teenagers and young people need places to hang out which are kind of neutral, or not linked to other things (like school, or shopping malls, or train stations, carparks, etc.).

Some councils here are building places where they can skateboard, specially designed skateboarding 'parks.' I think this is a good idea. Basically, okay if businesses don't want them around certain places, but then where will young people go? They need places to be with their kind and not impact on the daily business of adults. They need to socialise and have exercise or some activity.

So it's a complex issue.

The other thing is that at large train stations here, classical is played to move people on and provide a good atmosphere. It's contradictory but reading between the lines and seeing these places, that's the impression I get. However, it is not at every station. The other thing is that shopping malls and department stores do the same thing, eg. pipe out various types of music - mostly easy listening, eg. light classical or something neutral - for similar reasons, and also to induce people to be in the relaxed vibe to shop, obviously.

When I was a teenager we had youth clubs, we could play table tennis, cook some tucker chat up the girls but no booz etc we had a dance once a week, but I suppose that would not be enough to day.

Originally Posted by Andante

When I was a teenager we had youth clubs, we could play table tennis, cook some tucker chat up the girls but no booz etc we had a dance once a week, but I suppose that would not be enough to day.

Well no booze concerts and dance gigs are being done, have been for a while now. Esp. to attract under 18's. So maybe we're going back to that in some ways. I don't know how widespread it is, obviously not being in that age group, but I do hear of these things happening from time to time. It's promoted on radio sometimes (non classical radio, of course).

Somewhat related issue so I put it here. Flying foxes - a native species of bat - were evicted a few days ago from Sydney's Botanic Gardens, by speakers playing loud noises. The reason is them damaging and destroying trees (some rare species of trees) that they lived in there. Extract below in italics from an article in The Sydney Morning Herald newspaper online.

A mix of industrial noises, whistles and what sounded like the banging of saucepans was relayed from speakers on mobile buggies.

Within five minutes of the wake-up call, hundreds of bats were circling above the gardens.

''Normally you get a stream flying to the south and one to the east but they are not doing that,'' said Storm Stanford of Bat Watch Australia. ''You can see how confused their flight is and they are making a lot of noise. Normally it is silent.''

The hope is that the grey-headed flying fox will disappear into the Sydney night skies and never return.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/environment/an...#ixzz1x9ofwYNx