Thread: The TC Top 100+ Modern Classical Music List

(using same outline as Trout's thread)

Introduction

This is part of a series of the TC Top Recommended Lists project (previous ones can be seen here).

(This list was made as a reaction to the Modern Classical Music Project.)

The project philosophy is summarized below:

- The TalkClassical members with a wide variety of interests and experiences can reach a consensus on the top works from a variety of musical forms.
- The process should lead to some interesting debate and discussion regarding these various specialized areas of music.
- The resulting list will be posted as a Sticky Thread and may be used as reference points for both newcomers and long-time classical listeners to the world of classical music and to specific areas of classical music as defined by these lists.

Pre-Nomination Discussion

Before we begin voting, we're going to have to make a set of criteria collectively. Or in other words, we must agree on the requirements for works to be nominated.

And here is what I think (which of course will need to be edited):

1. It can be of any genre of any sort (as long as it's "classical"), film music is iffy but I'll let that be part of the discussion.
2. The general rule of thumb is that it should be post-1900. There are, of course, EXCEPTIONS to this rule, such as Debussy's Prelude to the Afternoon of a Faun. Mahler, Elgar, Puccini, Rachmaninoff, Rimsky-Korsakov, Grieg, Saint-Saens, Sibelius, and R. Strauss are not allowed, but early Schoenberg, Ravel, Debussy, and Satie are. Scriabin and others are going to be a problem. But we'll discuss this.
3. Neoclassical and other neo-whatever are allowed (e.g. Stravinsky).
4. We'll consider works such as Ligeti's Etudes as a single work if they are almost always recorded as a group, if they are not collectively too large - not more than 2 or 3 hours - and if the individual components wouldn't merit much consideration alone. These are vague guidelines because no very firm rule will fit all cases, so the community of participants can discuss any particular ambiguous choices. (from science's Classical Music Project)
5. The work must be published (I'm looking at you, CoAG)
6. We'll cross bridges when we come to them.

The first round should start in a couple of days once the qualifications are solidified and everyone has had enough time to listen and brainstorm their selections.

All users (new and old) are welcome to join! Ask question is needed about the criteria, or if the work you want to nominate fits the criteria, or whatever.

Anything on this list is applicable.

Adams: Harmonielehre
Adams: Nixon in China
Barber: Violin Concerto, Op. 14
Bartók: Concerto for Orchestra, Sz. 116, BB 123
Bartók: Music for Strings, Percussion, and Celesta, Sz. 106, BB 104
Bartók: Piano Concerto No. 2 in G major, Sz. 95, BB 101
Bartók: String Quartet No. 4, Sz. 91, BB 95
Bartók: Violin Concerto No. 2, Sz. 112, BB 117
Berg: Piano Sonata, Op. 1
Berg: Violin Concerto
Berg: Wozzeck, Op. 7
Berg: Lyric Suite
Britten: War Requiem, Op. 66
Copland: Appalachian Spring
Crumb: Black Angels
Debussy: Images pour piano, Sets 1 and 2, L 110 and L 111
Debussy: La mer, L 109
Debussy: Pelléas et Mélisande, L 88
Debussy: Prélude à l'après-midi d'un faune, L 86
Debussy: Préludes, Books 1 and 2, L 117 and L 123
Dutilleux: Tout un monde lointain…
Gershwin: Rhapsody in Blue
Gershwin: Porgy and Bess
Glass: Akhnaten
Górecki: Symphony of Sorrowful Songs, Op. 36
Ives: The Unanswered Question
Ligeti: Atmosphères
Ligeti: Études, Books 1, 2, and 3
Ligeti: Lux Aeterna
Ligeti: Requiem
Lutosławski: Symphony No. 3
Lutosławski: Concerto for Orchestra
Messiaen: Quatuor pour la fin du temps
Messiaen: Turangalîla-Symphonie
Messiaen: Vingt regards sur l'enfant-Jésus
Pärt: Fratres
Pärt: Tabula Rasa
Penderecki: Symphony No. 7 "7 Gates of Jerusalem"
Penderecki: Threnody to the Victims of Hiroshima
Poulenc: Gloria, FP 177
Prokofiev: Cinderella, Op. 87
Prokofiev: Piano Concerto No. 3 in C major, Op. 26
Prokofiev: Piano Sonata No. 7 in B-flat major “Stalingrad”, Op. 83
Prokofiev: Romeo and Juliet, Op. 64
Prokofiev: Symphony No. 5 in B-flat major, Op. 100
Prokofiev: Violin Concerto No. 1 in D major, Op. 19
Ravel: Daphnis et Chloé, M. 57
Ravel: Gaspard de la nuit, M. 55
Ravel: Piano Concerto in G major, M. 83
Ravel: Piano Trio in A minor, M. 67
Ravel: String Quartet in F major, M. 35
Reich: Different Trains
Reich: Music for 18 Musicians
Satie: Gymnopédies
Schnittke: Concerto Grosso No. 1
Schnittke: Viola Concerto
Schoenberg: Moses und Aron
Schoenberg: Pierrot Lunaire, Op. 21
Schoenberg: String Quartet No. 2, Op. 10
Schoenberg: Verklärte Nacht, Op. 4
Shostakovich: Piano Trio No. 2 in E minor, Op. 67
Shostakovich: Piano Quintet in G minor, Op. 57
Shostakovich: String Quartet No. 3 in F major, Op. 73
Shostakovich: String Quartet No. 8 in C minor, Op. 110
Shostakovich: Symphony No. 5 in D minor, Op. 47
Shostakovich: Symphony No. 10 in E minor, Op. 93
Stockhausen: Gruppen
Stravinsky: The Firebird
Stravinsky: Petrushka
Stravinsky: The Rite of Spring
Stravinsky: Symphony of Psalms
Vaughan Williams: Fantasia on a Theme by Thomas Tallis
Varèse: Amériques
Villa-Lobos: Bachianas Brasilieras
Webern: Six Pieces for Orchestra, Op. 6

I personally think late Scriabin should fit the criteria, but the definition of "late" is a grey zone.

Also, some people on this list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._by_birth_date are controversial (e.g. Elgar, Mahler) I think we should use this as a guide and then create our own list of composers that are applicable.

Might I suggest that the nominations in this thread be post-1911 instead of post-1900.

This could aid in the editing away of a lot of "grey" area music composed after the 19th century up to and including the year of death of Mahler.

Also, focusing on 1912 through present would yield an even 100-year period.

I'm thinking a possible rule-of-thumb criteria could be: "If it's over age 100, it's excluded "

What would be your thought on this?

My thought is that anything less than 100 years old isn't classical music. But that's a completely different discussion...

Because it is a rule of thumb and there are exceptions, then I don't see the problem. But some problems arise when there are romantic composers who still composed past 1912 (e.g. R. Strauss's Eine Alpensinfonie), so there's still that grey area involved, so we'll still have to create a definitive list of composers that are applicable and not applicable.

I'd like to suggest that, rather than having a set of arbitrary rules to determine what qualifies, we let the group decide on a case by case basis and incorporate that into the voting process. Anyone can nominate any piece they want. Borderline pieces are not likely to receive enough support to make it past the nomination round. That in and of itself will serve as a disincentive for people to nominate questionable pieces because they would potentially be wasting one of their votes by doing so.
If, by chance, such a piece does make it past the nomination round and to the voting round, it can be challenged by anyone, which would trigger a separate vote on whether or not it should be allowed. Any piece can only be challenged one time. If it wins the challenge it is eligible for inclusion even if it doesn't make the list that round. If the challenge is successful it can no longer be nominated. The list moderator will abstain from voting except when needed to break a tie.

Just a suggestion as a way to avoid arbitrary rules. I'll participate regardless.

There is a good case to be made for having things decided on a case by case basis, but I still think we should discuss this so that there are guidelines.

One issue I had with the 'Modern Project' was that it ended up being very conservative and leaning heavily into the romantic composers working in the early 20thc. I hope that this project will actually focus on 'modern' music.

How about basing it off of the composer's first published work? Any composer who's first work was published prior to 1912 doesn't qualify.

^A lot of composers are knocked out if we do that. (e.g. Debussy, RVW, Stravinsky)

I like SuperTonic's suggestion, but if we do that, then the deadlines for voting are going to have to be pretty long (5-7 days?)

Originally Posted by dmg

How about basing it off of the composer's first published work? Any composer who's first work was published prior to 1912 doesn't qualify.

Its an interesting idea, but it would for example, exclude any work by Stravinsky whose later works certainly qualify as 'modern'.

Before we start going crazy about the definition of "modern", can we first decide if film music, like Prokofiev's Alexander Nevsky, belongs here?

As a soundtrack collector myself, there are 100s of favorites I have in this medium (which should have its own thread/category).

As much as I love film scores, I say film music should not be included in this thread.

There's quite enough concert music as it is which hardly gets recognition; pitting film scores against such concert pieces is too much competition, I think.

I'm okay with excluding film scores, but what about cases, such as Alexander Nevsky or Lieutenant Kije, where the composer arranged a concert suite from the film score?

I think the concert suite (and cantata, in the case of Alexander Nevsky) should be allowed.

Originally Posted by SuperTonic

I'm okay with excluding film scores, but what about cases, such as Alexander Nevsky or Lieutenant Kije, where the composer arranged a concert suite from the film score?

I would say film scores should be okay if the composer primarily does their work in classical music.