Since our household proudly contains a "Politically Incorrect" T-shirt, I'd like to think that your heart is in the right place, but when you sayI don't think you're making your strongest point. Handling the first part of your premise, a prolific author has identified three demographics that have had difficulty ascending to positions of prominence in conducting. One is women. The second is a demographic where, if one argued that their brains were temperamentally unsuited to conducting, one would be labelled a racist, probably righly. The third could not possibly be construed to be unsuited to conducting, as they have among their number such musical titans as Tchaikovsky and Britten. So... (if I were to presume to answer for Mr. Hill) the brief response to your question is "yes."

The second part of your statement, (if you are good enough you will be noticed) can be used as a rationale for avoiding the cultivation of talent altogether. Now, of course, I recognize that this wasn't the intent of your wording. However, one could use that sentence to rationalize restricting opportunities for artistic development entirely, because if you're really a great performer, you'll "make your own chances."

That would be a most unfortunate outcome.

Chi town, I am having difficulty following you post it must be ADHD lol, can you clarify please.

Hi, there, Andante: I attribute all difficulties to my obliqueness and lack of clarity. My points were- 1) yes, I believe there to be some bias regarding conducting, and I don't believe it to be limited to "male bias." and 2) the idea that "genius and talent will out" is an attractive one-- we'd like to believe that meritocracy will eventually triumph in these matters, but, (as T.S. Eliot said) "between the conception and the creation falls the shadow." I think we can both agree that there are too many examples of "hype-creation" performers (I'll avoid mention of names here) to believe that the most worthy artists will always emerge from the pack.

As I had an opportunity to reflect further on this topic, I thought about the following:
a) In pre-Elizabethan times, the very finest high-range singers were considered to be castrati and countertenors. We have moved beyond those mutilative times, although (in a case of everything old is new again) countertenors are once again a topic of discussion.
b) Clara Schumann to the contrary, the idea of female virtuosi was considered quite an oddity in the Victorian era. We now have prominent female virtuosi in every solo instrument of note, and rightfully.
c) The idea of all-male orchestras persisted, embarrassingly, until the last quarter-century. The success of integrated orchestras (and the efficacy of screened auditions) have spoken to the benefit of putting that episode in our past.

Finally, at the final threshold of Western Art Music performance, is the idea of the female conductor. So- is there really something intrinsic that will prevent the acceptance of this development, or will this ceiling turn out to be glasswork, like all of the others?

Let us share the problem of my failure to understand your post, you are most kind.

I agree that between conception and creation are many obstacles, but I am on about a person that has emerged from that place into the position of operating to an excellent degree.
I agree that 2nd raters can be made into saleable products we see that happening all the time, I simply mean that if you are a talented artist (conductor) and have ambition you will be noticed, of course for this to happen you must make sure you perform [ambition] otherwise how would any one see you, women have successfully done this in instrumental playing and have been playing in orchestras for many years now, our own national sym orch has 40% women [35 of the 90 full time players] even in the mid 50s a small local orchestra that I played in had approx 15- 20% women players ! and there are many woman conductors in the world today, but how many are at the top?
Regarding glass ceilings, no I don’t think that women will make an impact on the conducting world or for that matter in composing

I agree with the attitude expressed by a male character near the beginning of the film Urban Cowboy. "There's nothing a man can do that a woman can't, except p*** against a wall."

I also heartily endorse ChitownPhilly's mention of Margaret Hillis as one of the better women conductors of the last 60 years. If there truly is a Last Judgment, which I seriously doubt, lots of folk ought to be called to account for the fact that she was never offered the music directorship of a major symphony orchestra. Marin Alsop, music director of the Baltimore Sym Orch, is another who, as mentioned by another poster, is really an up and coming conductor. One other I want to mention is an Israeli conductor named Dalia Atlas (maiden name), and Dalia Atlas Sternberg (married name). She has conducted a couple of magnificent recordings of music by Ernest Bloch, and I would really like to hear her record more.

__________________
"Don't drink and drive. You might spill it."--J Eugene Baker, aka my late father.
"Crescit sub pondere virtus."--Motto on McCann family crest.

I have heard performances of Marion Alsop, (how much longer do you think she needs??) also Jane Glover with the London Mozart Players but very few others.
The fact remains that Conductors are not players favourite people and players can make a conductors life hell, men can handle this usually by rising above it with single minded concentration and not getting emotional…?……!……!……….?.
So a conductor must have authority, be assertive, command respect from the players and must be a leader without being bossy these are things that a woman (generally) would find very difficult, admittedly the exception brakes the rule.
I had hoped that a reply from say a working rank and file musician would be forthcoming to give another perspective but perhaps they are to busy to come online. I find that I am repeating my self a lot so will make no further posts unless something really interesting or controversial comes up. Regards A….