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Thread: Mozart Requiem

  1. #16
    Senior Member stomanek's Avatar
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    The Offertorio (Domine Jesu and Hostias) is fantastic - I don't think it's boring at all. Mozart wrote out the vocal parts for virtually the whole requiem - any decent musicologist on the basis of that alone - could construct the instrumentation around it because the first violin part is also written out.
    As i said - the Sanctus is highly suspect - is second rate. Compare it with the majestic sanctus in the c minor mass - no comparison at all. The Benedictus - is beautiful - I think Mozart must have sketched that to some extent and S completed it. The agnus dei also is wonderful in its way and I doubt if S could have conceived that all by himself. S was a mediocre talent - there is no way he could have invented - the sanctus may be his alone - he did a decent job there. What modern composer would even attempt to finish off a master's work? It took D Cooke 10 years to complete Mahler's 10th. S had just weeks.
    The best parts of this work are so fabulous it is worth listening to and coming back to.

  2. #17
    Inactive Carpenoctem's Avatar
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    I've just got Peter Schreier's recording of Requiem. It's a bit overshadowed by Karajan and Gardiner's recording.

    The tempo is fine, even though I'd like Confutatis to be a bit faster. The sound quality is superb. Overall, currently my favorite recoding.


    1fa8a2c008a081a064f5b010.L.jpg
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  3. #18
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    Had a listen of this Herreweghe recording recently. It's very good.



    http://youtu.be/WUBNM9zurBo
    Last edited by Philip; Sep-21-2012 at 15:01.

  4. #19
    Inactive Carpenoctem's Avatar
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    ^This is a wonderful recording.

  5. #20
    Senior Member Vaneyes's Avatar
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    My starter is Sherchen's (1958, 63:16). The fastest I've experienced, Hickox at 46:51.

    51E9L81vooL._SL500_AA300_.jpg
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  6. #21
    Senior Member ComposerOfAvantGarde's Avatar
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    This one is faster:



    41:03
    It's the greed of huge companies and huge organizations which control life in a kind of a brutal way ... It's gotten worse and worse, somehow, because physical science has given us more and more terrible deadly weapons, and the human spirit has been destroyed in so many cases, so what's the use of having the most powerful country in the world if we have killed the soul.
    ~Hovhaness

  7. #22
    Senior Member Vaneyes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ComposerOfAvantGarde View Post
    This one is faster:



    41:03
    Thanks for that startling time. I was so intrigued, I sampled. Had to spit it out...it was so awful. Of speedier versions, I could recommend the Hickox.

  8. #23
    Senior Member Ondine's Avatar
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    I have Bohm, Marriner and Schreier.

    Bohm offers a very 'human' version. Offers a concern about a very difficult oeuvre to define its approach. But Marriner and Schreier are outstanding making some sort of homage if not so 'human' as Bohm's.

    Requiem brings me mixed emotions.

    Being Mozart so special form my live, context, & emotional needs and knowing that he died -it is told- writing it, it is an oeuvre which deserves high consideration.

    It is unavoidable some sadness from myself.

    His life and circumstances were not so easy. I think that Forman's Amadeus could have shown a more complete Mozart because the music he composed has something that at first glance can't be grasped properly.

    I sometimes think that the perfection of his music is sometimes irksome and irritating to some music lovers. I respect that and it is OK.

    I can't talk too much about Mozart because it is hard to put in words the emotional response I have had ever when listening to his entire oeuvre.

    But happens that the Requiem is revealing that intimate aspect that maybe is not well documented and was hardly known even by his closest friends and wife.

    Listening for years his oeuvre, exploring his not well known and appreciated compositions, knowing that in his early adolescence he was already a consummate composer there something more behind that alleged 'shallowness' as clearness and subtlety.

    That he was treated as a ordinary servant and that most of his music was forced by the demanding frivolous society he found finally in his Requiem a break to show more freedom its really a tragedy that had to be his last and incomplete composition.

    I listen it from time to time with reverence.

    Last edited by Ondine; Sep-22-2012 at 06:01.

  9. #24
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    Mozart's Requiem is arguably the best ever composed in this medium. A balanced work of enormous beauty and brilliant writing in every line of the composition (anything is practically singable).
    From a multitude (a true plethora) of good recordings, it is quite difficult to choose even some. However, for me the one with Harnoncourt on DHM is superb in every way, brilliantly recorded in SACD, though live. The cast is very fine.
    From the recent ones, the one with The Sixteen and Harry Christophers is very good indeed and well recorded (on Coro).
    From the "period" performances, at least the one of Bruggen on Glossa and the one of Savall on Alia Vox are worth noting.
    From the "big" names, labels, orchestras, soloists, etc., I love the following:
    - Kertesz with an impressive cast of soloists (now on Eloquence).
    - Bertini with a very good group of singers on Capriccio.
    - Mackerras in a very subtle but emotional performance and in a bright analytical recording of Linn.
    - The late Robert Shaw's brilliant "historic" performance on Telarc with an impressive quartet of singers.
    - Abbado with some very good singers of our time in a tight but superb performance on DG.

    Principe
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  10. #25
    Senior Member Vaneyes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by principe View Post
    Mozart's Requiem is arguably the best ever composed in this medium. A balanced work of enormous beauty and brilliant writing in every line of the composition (anything is practically singable).
    From a multitude (a true plethora) of good recordings, it is quite difficult to choose even some. However, for me the one with Harnoncourt on DHM is superb in every way, brilliantly recorded in SACD, though live. The cast is very fine.
    From the recent ones, the one with The Sixteen and Harry Christophers is very good indeed and well recorded (on Coro).
    From the "period" performances, at least the one of Bruggen on Glossa and the one of Savall on Alia Vox are worth noting.
    From the "big" names, labels, orchestras, soloists, etc., I love the following:
    - Kertesz with an impressive cast of soloists (now on Eloquence).
    - Bertini with a very good group of singers on Capriccio.
    - Mackerras in a very subtle but emotional performance and in a bright analytical recording of Linn.
    - The late Robert Shaw's brilliant "historic" performance on Telarc with an impressive quartet of singers.
    - Abbado with some very good singers of our time in a tight but superb performance on DG.

    Principe
    Though I enjoy this "completed" Requiem very much, I doubt if musicologists would rate it numero uno, with Verdi, Berlioz, Faure, Brahms, Britten, Cherubini, Dvorak, and others, to choose from.

  11. #26
    Senior Member ComposerOfAvantGarde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vaneyes View Post
    though i enjoy this "completed" requiem very much, i doubt if musicologists would rate it numero uno, with verdi, berlioz, faure, brahms, britten, cherubini, dvorak, and others, to choose from.
    AND YOU HAVE FAILED TO MENTION THE BEST REQUIEM OF THEM ALL COMPOSED BY LIGETI!!!!!
    Last edited by ComposerOfAvantGarde; Sep-24-2012 at 01:48.
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    It's the greed of huge companies and huge organizations which control life in a kind of a brutal way ... It's gotten worse and worse, somehow, because physical science has given us more and more terrible deadly weapons, and the human spirit has been destroyed in so many cases, so what's the use of having the most powerful country in the world if we have killed the soul.
    ~Hovhaness

  12. #27
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    Vaneyes, some of the Requiems you mentioned are very significant, but none has the perfect balance of form, sublime melody and superb harmony, serving the purpose of the work in the closest possible way.
    Verdi's is a massive operatic choral work, which, somehow serves the "Messe des morts". Impressive, but is it a true and musically balanced Requiem? Only the excessive use of trumpets (let alone the big drum) makes it almost brilliant entertainment.
    Berlioz' is also a grandiose work out of proportion. For those who do not mind excess of form, sonorities, instrumentation, maybe it's the strongest contender. However, as for the actual substance of the music...
    Faure's is so human, lovely and simple that could never be but only a favourite one, but not a top Requiem. Even Faure himself has confessed: "My Requiem was written for none or nothing...I could say...for pleasure"!
    Brahms' is a masterpiece of a very austere and unique character. That's why it is performed only a fraction of the times Mozart's is performed all over the globe.
    Britten's is a very individual, modern masterpiece. It cannot be compared with a classic one. The few performances and recordings (comparatively) show its unique character.
    Cherubini's (in c minor) is the closest to Mozart's, but the man didn't reach this perfection of the form and balance of the different sections. However, it's a strong contender for the very top Requiems.
    Dvorak's is for those few who may like his choral works. Personally, I cannot compare it even with his contemporary (Brahms). However, it sounds slightly better than Schumann's Requiem and Requiem pour Mignon and far better than Liszt's.
    As for Ligetti's, this is, probably, only for the Men...of AvantGarde.

    Principe
    Last edited by principe; Sep-26-2012 at 01:56.

  13. #28
    Senior Member Ondine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by principe View Post
    Mozart's Requiem is arguably the best ever composed in this medium. A balanced work of enormous beauty and brilliant writing in every line of the composition (anything is practically singable).
    From a multitude (a true plethora) of good recordings, it is quite difficult to choose even some. However, for me the one with Harnoncourt on DHM is superb in every way, brilliantly recorded in SACD, though live. The cast is very fine.
    From the recent ones, the one with The Sixteen and Harry Christophers is very good indeed and well recorded (on Coro).
    From the "period" performances, at least the one of Bruggen on Glossa and the one of Savall on Alia Vox are worth noting.
    From the "big" names, labels, orchestras, soloists, etc., I love the following:
    - Kertesz with an impressive cast of soloists (now on Eloquence).
    - Bertini with a very good group of singers on Capriccio.
    - Mackerras in a very subtle but emotional performance and in a bright analytical recording of Linn.
    - The late Robert Shaw's brilliant "historic" performance on Telarc with an impressive quartet of singers.
    - Abbado with some very good singers of our time in a tight but superb performance on DG.

    Principe
    It is beautiful the way you speak about Mozart, Principe...
    'Small is Beautiful...'
    Leopold Kohr
    ------
    English isn't my mother language... please be patient.

  14. #29
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    Ondine, Mozart gives me an utmost fulfillment than almost any other composer, in every single composition of his. Very rare to say that even for Beethoven or Bach's total output. Wagner is the other one who can do the same, but, he wrote only a handful monumental (gargantuan) works that require a "huge deep breath" and appropriate mental preparation, before embarking on them.
    Another thing: Thanks to Mozart (and, to some extent, Haydn), I became a true convert of Chamber Music.

    Principe
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  15. #30
    Senior Member Ondine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by principe View Post
    Ondine, Mozart gives me an utmost fulfillment than almost any other composer, in every single composition of his.
    Another thing: Thanks to Mozart (and, to some extent, Haydn), I became a true convert of Chamber Music.

    Principe
    Happy that we concur here, Principe
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    'Small is Beautiful...'
    Leopold Kohr
    ------
    English isn't my mother language... please be patient.

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