Thread: Mozart Requiem

I thought it would be a good idea to start a Mozart requiem thread. It's a problematic work and the questions over authenticity fascinate me as much as I rue the fact that this incredible work was left unfinished by the composer.

I came to the requiem quite early in my career as a Mozart devotee - and went through months listening to almost nothing else - reading the research - trying different recordings - approaches.

The best recording I have ever heard remains John Eliot Gardiner's period performance on Philips and I would like to ask for alternative recommendations - as I have not tried any recording made in the last 15 years - I have probably heard the lot before that - Karajan, Bohm etc etc

It's a sublime and frustrating experience listening to this work - it soars to heights - and falls into troughs - where no doubt Mozart's intentions are unknown. The ending is disappointing and I cannot believe Mozart would have completed his requiem in the unimaginative way that his pupil did. Nevertheless - it seems to me that the traditional performance edition is the best - I hate Hogwood's recording.

So I would like to ask if anyone has any thoughts on this work - how do you listen to it? I know some people who listen as far as the Lacrymosa - rejecting the latter half as too spurious to warrant further attention. Yet there is much fine music and I personally listen all the way to the end. The Sanctus is too banal and I can't believe a single note of that belongs to Mozart. But there is beauty in the Benedictus and Agnus Dei.

Does anyone know if scholarship on the requiem has advanced or shed any additional light on this work in the last 15 years or so - I have been out of touch.

If you think the best version is John Eliot Gardiner's DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES LISTEN TO THE BÖHM. IT IS HIGHLY ROMANTICISED AND FAR TOO SLOW. UGH, DISGUSTING.

Originally Posted by ComposerOfAvantGarde

If you think the best version is John Eliot Gardiner's DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES LISTEN TO THE BÖHM. IT IS HIGHLY ROMANTICISED AND FAR TOO SLOW. UGH, DISGUSTING.

I think this is a little unfair. The Bohm version was certainly considered a very good version, but it was of it was very much of its time. Critics today might call it slow of tempo, orchestrally muddy, overblown and heavily Romanticised as you say... but does that make it a bad version? Certainly it wouldn't have been anything like Mozart would have recognised as being his own orchestration, but that doesn't stop it being art at its most emotionally life-affirming in its own right. Many Classical Music fans for instance still rate Klemperer's 'Missa Solemnis' as being one of the finet interpretations, whilst Karajan's Mozart Requiem is still very highly thought of and sold by the cart load.

Speaking personally, I prefer the HIP oriented versions, for which I think the Gardiner and Marriner are exceptionally good examples and the ones I turn to most often, but they certainly wouldn't have been my Grandpa's choice!

I have a really average quality recording of this Masterpiece (capital entirely intended here), both in terms of sound quality as well as the soloists.
This recording however brought me in love with the piece, that I right now consider as the Greatest thing the Western culture has ever produced. You may think: shud it with your highly subjective superlatives, but I mean it.

Mozart's Requiem is so touching, beautiful, divine, sacred, that no words can describe it.

I'll follow this thread, to get a good view about which recordings I need to have.


Sincerely,


Bas

I found this article on the Requiem recently. It doesn't answer all the questions about the piece, but at least clears up some of the rumors that Sussmayr wrote everything after the lacrymosa (I still see people saying this on youtube).

http://kennethwoods.net/blog1/2009/0...ozart-requiem/

Originally Posted by ComposerOfAvantGarde

BÖHM FAR TOO SLOW

Try Celibidache...

Mozart - Requiem, K 626 (complete) - Celibidache


Wow! Excellent!!!

I've always got the impression from the little internet research that I've done on the piece, that the Offertorio (Domine Jesu and Hostias), that is the bit that people often find an enormous let down after the Lacrimosa, were written by Mozart. Most scholarly works (as the article above does) focus on the last three movements (Sanctus, Benedictus, Agnus Dei) which Sussmayer is supposed to have mostly written, whereas its the Domine Jesu that most people find "boring" after the Lacrimosa (the end of which is also supposed to be his work). Can anyone put me straight here?

Originally Posted by Ramako

I've always got the impression from the little internet research that I've done on the piece, that the Offertorio (Domine Jesu and Hostias), that is the bit that people often find an enormous let down after the Lacrimosa, were written by Mozart. Most scholarly works (as the article above does) focus on the last three movements (Sanctus, Benedictus, Agnus Dei) which Sussmayer is supposed to have mostly written, whereas its the Domine Jesu that most people find "boring" after the Lacrimosa (the end of which is also supposed to be his work). Can anyone put me straight here?

I don't know about the Hostias, but the Domine Jesu Christe seems to be well-received(from the comments) and it's one of my favorite sections:



There's a chart half-way down the page says what sections Mozart completed, but not much info on the Sanctus, Benedictus, and Agnus Dei.

http://www.its.caltech.edu/~tan/Mozartreq/main.html

Originally Posted by trazom

I don't know about the Hostias, but the Domine Jesu Christe seems to be well-received(from the comments) and it's one of my favorite sections:

There's a chart half-way down the page says what sections Mozart completed, but not much info on the Sanctus, Benedictus, and Agnus Dei.

http://www.its.caltech.edu/~tan/Mozartreq/main.html

Thanks for the info - and that's a great chart.

Everyone I know says how you can immediately tell from after the Lacrimosa (i.e. Domine Jesu) how much worse it is. TBH I think there is a little bit of reverse taste going on - they think that Mozart died after Lacrimosa and assume Domine Jesu is by Sussmayer therefore it can't be as good. I don't think I have the heart to correct them.

Originally Posted by Philip

Try Celibidache...

Mozart - Requiem, K 626 (complete) - Celibidache


Wow! Excellent!!!

Geez that drags on over an hour? At that excruciatingly slow pace it redefines the phrase "dying a slow and painful death."

AARGH

Mozart has become one of my favorites, but so far it's not so with his Requiem. There are seperate sections that I really do like, but on the whole the work hasn't clicked for me yet. I have only listened to one version so far ( I don't recall which at the moment, but I know it's a well regarded version.) It's been months since I've listened though, now that my appreciation for him has grown I'll try it again soon. Brahm's German Requiem and Faure's Requiem are tops for me.

Originally Posted by ComposerOfAvantGarde

Geez that drags on over an hour? At that excruciatingly slow pace it redefines the phrase "dying a slow and painful death."

AARGH

You should try actually listening to it!!

I love Bohm's Mozart. Nothing at all wrong with it.

Finally!! Thank you, Phillip!