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Thread: Beethoven's 9th

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    Senior Member beetzart's Avatar
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    Default Beethoven's 9th

    Listening to it right now. How on earth did he do it? It's like something beyond human, and he was nearly deaf! It is indescribable beauty, that tears me to pieces, perfection that will never be matched, ever. Beethoven wasn't just a composer who lived from 1770-1827, he was a once in a world's existence. The greatest human who ever lived was Beethoven. Not only for his music but for his personality and his battle against suppression. I'm sure I was born with the opening 4 bars of the 5th imprinted in my brain.
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    Senior Member jani's Avatar
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    Beethoven was stone deaf the last ten years of his life, so he was fully deaf when he wrote it ( He finished the work 1824 and he died 1827).
    It was his uncompromising dedication for his art, his moral values and his willpower and his faith to humanity what gave him the power to create those works.
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    Inactive Carpenoctem's Avatar
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    The sad thing is, modern medicine could easily cure his hearing loss.

    But then again, who knows if he would write such a symphony if he had't been deaf.
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    Yeah, the 9th always gets me. Always.
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    Senior Member beetzart's Avatar
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    Thank you for clarifying that, I thought he only went stone deaf in his last two years, and was severely deaf in the previous 10 years.
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    Senior Member beetzart's Avatar
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    That is the crazy thing. The music he wrote before starting to go deaf is good but it only got great after that. He may have just been another Hummel otherwise, no disrespect to Hummel fans, I like his music but I do find some of it lazy. Then Schubert wouldn't have been so inspired, in a sort of a knock on effect. Oh well it didn't happen in this Universe.
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    Senior Member jani's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beetzart View Post
    That is the crazy thing. The music he wrote before starting to go deaf is good but it only got great after that. He may have just been another Hummel otherwise, no disrespect to Hummel fans, I like his music but I do find some of it lazy. Then Schubert wouldn't have been so inspired, in a sort of a knock on effect. Oh well it didn't happen in this Universe.
    Deafness didn't effect much for his composing abilities ( Of course it did, but not as much as someone might think).
    Deafness for him mainly mean't shame, social isolation and not being able to perform live.
    Last edited by jani; Jul-26-2012 at 23:22.
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    Senior Member ComposerOfAvantGarde's Avatar
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    Beethoven's ninth symphony would be his best if it wasn't for the bloody last movement. The last movement should be a piece in itself and the symphony should have had a purely orchestral finale of the same quality as the first three movements. The 24 minute choral finale that we have now completely throws the rest of the symphony out of whack.
    Last edited by ComposerOfAvantGarde; Jul-26-2012 at 23:26.
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    Inactive Carpenoctem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jani View Post
    Deafness for him mainly mean't shame, social isolation and not being able to perform live.
    Yap, he was even thinking of committing suicide, he was very depressed when he realized he was getting deaf.
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    Yeah, it's the bestest. The finale makes me laugh like hell at points. In a really good way. Schubert's 9th does too, when it gets into can-can mode. Fuggin' geniuses, man.

    "Nobody will ever write anything better than this symphony." -Rachmaninov
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    Senior Member beetzart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ComposerOfAvantGarde View Post
    Beethoven's ninth symphony would be his best if it wasn't for the bloody last movement. The last movement should be a piece in itself and the symphony should have had a purely orchestral finale of the same quality as the first three movements. The 24 minute choral finale that we have now completely throws the rest of the symphony out of whack.
    But this is Beethoven we are talking about. He made the rules but I do understand what you are saying. No contemporary would have dared risk what He did. He had to produce something that could never be matched and gave his life the ultimate purpose, to compose the greatest piece of music ever.

    Am I right in thinking he formulated ideas for such a symphony as early as the 1790s?

    Imagine being in that Theatre on the premiere of the 9th; how many minds then realised what they had just witnessed?

    I'm sticking my neck right out here, but if you took every piece of art, from every genre, from every culture, throughout the entire history of mankind and metaphorically stacked it next to the 9th symphony it would be like comparing the height of Houses of Parliament to the Empire State Building. It really is that incredible, and no words exist to do it justice. Imagine a blind Michaelangelo painting the Sistine chapel, but the chapel has grown to the size of an Olympic Stadium! Or Shakespeare, by chance happening to still be alive today and still writing several plays a year. That is what other artists would need to do to get close to the 9th. And that is just one piece of music. What about the 5th? The opening four bars ingrained in developing brains from an early age. The man was a beast, a freak even. Totally mad but utterly beautiful and no human eyes will see the light from such a genius ever again.

    I quite like Beethoven by the way!
    Last edited by beetzart; Jul-27-2012 at 00:24.
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    Senior Member jani's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ComposerOfAvantGarde View Post
    Beethoven's ninth symphony would be his best if it wasn't for the bloody last movement. The last movement should be a piece in itself and the symphony should have had a purely orchestral finale of the same quality as the first three movements. The 24 minute choral finale that we have now completely throws the rest of the symphony out of whack.
    Start watching from 49:55
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    Senior Member SottoVoce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beetzart View Post
    He may have just been another Hummel otherwise.
    I'm not sure if that's the case. His early Sonatas, especially No. 2 and No. 6, I think are some of his best; in my opinion much better than some of the mid-period ones. He was already showing a craftsmanship far beyond Hummel's.

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    REALLY DO NOT BLAME HIM i could not live that well without hearing music also.

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    Senior Member Ramako's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ComposerOfAvantGarde View Post
    Beethoven's ninth symphony would be his best if it wasn't for the bloody last movement. The last movement should be a piece in itself and the symphony should have had a purely orchestral finale of the same quality as the first three movements. The 24 minute choral finale that we have now completely throws the rest of the symphony out of whack.
    Ironically, if there is one movement that people sometimes single out as problematic it is normally the 4th. Mendelssohn said something along the lines that there were sections he did not understand, but with such a great master as Beethoven it was probably his fault not the pieces.

    I think the problem is that in the first three Movements Beethoven is being descriptive of the human condition, in the last he is suggesting his solution. In the first three there is less room to go wrong. I personally disagree with his solution, but I do think that the movement fits - it is almost supposed to throw the piece out of whack, it is supposed to be the focus of the symphony with the Ode to Joy and all that. It is the whole point

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