Thread: The Listening Hierarchy: Where Are You Currently?

Originally Posted by ComposerOfAvantGarde

Then there's also how much you know about music history, theory, composition etc.

True, but at the end of the day, it's how one regards oneself that matters concerning artistic appreciation. Given that about 75% of us consider we are at least "experienced" listeners, it is fair to say a clear majority of classical music listeners here at TC have a rather high opinion of our own experience. This is "empirical evidence" to help show that it is no wonder that we often end up bickering with each other about classical music and the arts - many of us have a strong view; most of us have a self-belief that we are "experienced". Look at me, I even voted "Master".

Originally Posted by HarpsichordConcerto

True, but at the end of the day, it's how one regards oneself that matters concerning artistic appreciation. Given that about 75% of us consider we are at least "experienced" listeners, it is fair to say a clear majority of classical music listeners here at TC have a rather high opinion of our own experience. This is "empirical evidence" to help show that it is no wonder that we often end up bickering with each other about classical music and the arts - many of us have a strong view; most of us have a self-belief that we are "experienced". Look at me, I even voted "Master".

Either I am regarding myself and my listening experience far too low or I don't care about classical music, but I am here at TC (and in real life) to annoy classical music listeners who are snobs.

Originally Posted by HarpsichordConcerto

True, but at the end of the day, it's how one regards oneself that matters concerning artistic appreciation. Given that about 75% of us consider we are at least "experienced" listeners, it is fair to say a clear majority of classical music listeners here at TC have a rather high opinion of our own experience. This is "empirical evidence" to help show that it is no wonder that we often end up bickering with each other about classical music and the arts - many of us have a strong view; most of us have a self-belief that we are "experienced". Look at me, I even voted "Master".

I think it's also because that people on TC seem to put a lot more effort and seem to have more knowledge in general than the average classical listener. Even to my friends who listen to classical music frequently, not one of them know much outside of the core repertoire and many still refer to highly dissonant works as 'atonal'. I'm glad to be part of a a community that cares so incessantly about the classical music; I think we're highly deserving of our "Experienced" majority.

Originally Posted by bigshot

How can you be a master of Russian without chamber? (Gliere, Borodin, Glazanov, etc)

I can.

I do tend to stay away from Russian chamber because, just like with all other composers from other countries, their chamber still bores me! Solo piano and 2 Piano chamber music is my favorite of the Russians, not string quartets/quintets, but I may like piano trios more quickly.

This I find very cute.

Sorry, I could never take part in a poll that uses the word "hierarchy".

Originally Posted by science

I consider myself a newbie. I have seriously focused on classical music for less than a decade; the only thin that makes it seem like I know a lot is that I've bought a ton of music in that time and listened to most it two or three times, had a couple of music classes, hung out with some professional musicians, and read a few books and lots of stuff on the internet.

I figure in twenty more years or so I'll have appreciated most of ... "the standard repertoire," I suppose, though I'd probably include more in that than some people would (i.e. Ligeti, Penderecki, Martinu, Cherubini, Gombert, Victoria, Reger, Alkan, Henze, Schnittke, Massenet....).

Science, you are being very modest: your self-description sounds like "experienced" as defined in the OP.

Originally Posted by Hausmusik

Science, you are being very modest: your self-description sounds like "experienced" as defined in the OP.

Nice of you to say so. I couldn't understand the OP, but if I made up my own terms I'd call myself an "advanced beginner."

Originally Posted by science

Nice of you to say so. I couldn't understand the OP, but if I made up my own terms I'd call myself an "advanced beginner."

Actually I also think of myself as in the early stages of "learning" classical music. I think a huge difference between us and most classical listeners is that we have not only actively explored more music but also searched out what we don't know. We are much more aware of what's available in classical music, and therefore, we realize how much we don't know.

The OP's definition I think describes both of us as "experienced" although neither of us really feels that word is appropriate. I would guess it describes you somewhat better than me.

Anyway, it's a very long path of exploration and discovery. I doubt I will ever come to a point where I feel truly masterful, but then that's not my purpose.

Originally Posted by Huilunsoittaja

I do tend to stay away from Russian chamber because, just like with all other composers from other countries, their chamber still bores me!

i assure you that their chamber music was just as important to them as their larger form works. The fact that it bores you has more to do with you than it does with them.

I remember in college after getting into classical music thinking I knew something about it. I decided to apply to the Wherehouse in Westwood to be a classical section clerk. In the interview, the manager said to me, "Tell me about your favorite chamber works." I instantly knew I was in over my head in that interview.

I really think that the more people who check the higher categories in the list above, the more it indicates that there are an awful lot of newbies. I know I would have confidently checked expert when I was in college. Now, I feel like I've barely gotten started.

Folks, stop getting hung up with "modesty". This poll was not supposed to be some pyschoanalysis thing about your modesty levels. It is simply about how experienced you consider yourself as a listener.

I am everywhen and no-once.

Originally Posted by HarpsichordConcerto

Folks, stop getting hung up with "modesty". This poll was not supposed to be some pyschoanalysis thing about your modesty levels. It is simply about how experienced you consider yourself as a listener.

How one considers oneself has everything to do with modesty, doesn't it?

Originally Posted by bigshot

How one considers oneself has everything to do with modesty, doesn't it?

Sure. But the poll is about a reasonably objective self-assessment of how much experience one has. If the terms "experienced", "master", "Guru", bothers you so much, then delete those terms; substitute apples and oranges, or Type Z, Type Y if that helps to answer the poll's question. Pretend this poll's question came about for a job interview for the position of "Concert Reviewer"/whatever and you were insterested in applying, and assume further that the position is one for a big-shot.

Bigshot was actually my job title at one studio I worked for. It kinda stuck.

There is one thing that's assumed in the way the categories of the poll are structured... That's the assumption that one moves beyond core repetoire to become experienced. I'm learning that is an illusion. Core repetoire is a destination for a zen master in itself.

I'm definately a newbie. I'm enjoying the journey of discovery.
The path is long and like a labyrinth.
You move down one passage to find 10 new ones opening out before you
I'm enjoying the journey