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Thread: Censorship, banning of non-classical musics

  1. #16
    Senior Member starthrower's Avatar
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    Most artists who write political lyrics, or lyrics that challenge the status quo and make you think never got any airplay in America. Not on commercial networks. Well maybe a little bit in the 60s, but the ruling class learned their lessons, and they won't let it happen again.

    The networks make their money from advertising, so they're not going to play stuff like "Who Are The Brain Police?" or I'm The Slime by Zappa. I've never heard Nina Simone on mainstream radio. Things are mind numbing here at this point. You just hear Freebird, Stairway To Heaven, and More Than A Feeling 365 days a year.

    Millions of "regular folks" listen to commercial country radio here in the states. They feed you tailor made corporate country music with all the familiar themes. Nationalism, love for beer, pick up trucks, and the pseudo patriotic war glory anthems by singers like Toby Keith. This is accompanied by syndicated right wing talk radio programs by Rush Limbaugh and Michael Savage. The brainwashing is very effective on tired, frightened uneducated working people who are getting poorer every year. Too tired to think? The scapegoat baiter's have all the answers for ya!

    A great example of this, and a sad moment in recent history was the vicious Nazi style attacks on the popular county act the Dixie Chicks when they spoke out against the Iraq invasion. Country music stations around the nation banned their records, and Nazi style public record smashing and burning took place.


    The famous Hermann Goering quote rings true in the land that defeated Fascism.


    Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.
    Last edited by starthrower; Aug-10-2012 at 17:41.
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  2. #17
    Senior Member cwarchc's Avatar
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    You had the Beatles with "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds" banned by the BBC as they thought it had drug references. Lennon denied it?
    Then you have "God save the Queen" by the Sex Pistols banned by just about every radio station, in the UK at least, in the 70's.
    Should they have been banned? who can really say. It would depend on which side of the politcal fence you were sitting on at the time.
    It certainly didn't harm record sales, or the celebrity (infamy) of either of these pieces
    Censorship is an interesting concept. Who says what should or shouldn't be allowed?
    How do umake the decsion as to were to draw the line?
    Last edited by cwarchc; Aug-14-2012 at 00:43.
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  3. #18
    Senior Member elgars ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cwarchc View Post
    You had the Beatles with "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds" banned by the BBC as they thought it had drug references. Lennon denied it?
    Then you have "God save the Queen" by the Sex Pistols banned by just about every radio station, in the UK at least, in the 70's.
    Should they have been banned? who can really say. It would depend on which side of the politcal fence you were sitting on at the time.
    It certainly didn't harm record sales, or the celebrity (infamy) of either of these pieces
    Censorship is an interesting concept. Who says what should or shouldn't be allowed?
    How do umake the decsion as to were to draw the line?

    Lucy in the Sky may not have been ABOUT drugs but it was surely a song that was written when ON drugs? Any banning of that song didn't particularly harm the Beatles but had it been released as a single things might have been different. Even then the censors were out of touch - other Beatles songs in 1966/67 had definite drug references but were veiled in innocuous or obscure/nonsense lyrics - and I'm inclined to think the censors only picked up on Lucy In the Sky With Diamonds because of the initials of the three key words in the title...

    Censorship always cuts both ways - as I previously mentioned it cruelly cut the Kinks off at the knees when the BBC threw the book at them in a heavy-handed manner but if an act has a greater degree of notoriety to begin with (Stones, Pistols, Frankie Goes To Hollywood, certain rap artists etc) then adverse publicity and censorship can - and often will - actually make their stock rise. In the case of the Beatles it probably made little difference as they were so huge that massive record sales were automatically guaranteed and continued to be even when the lovable mop-top days were over and the drug busts and general weirdness started to kick in.
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    Is it bad to think that some music that gets aired nowadays on radio like Black eyed peas or Rhianna should be banned?

    There's no political reason, it's just bad music or none at all.

  5. #20
    Senior Member TrazomGangflow's Avatar
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    Banning of almost anything is unproductive and futile. If its something that people want badly enough they'll buy it or listen too it secretly. Banning of the arts is especially hurtful to a society's culture. Often in history the richest culture was created when citizens were unhappy with their government. Satires, paintings of war, violence, and poverty as well as music portraying the grievances of the people have often become eternal pieces of art that will forever live with humanity.
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    Senior Member Sid James's Avatar
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    Just necroing this thread, as news has come in of the punk rock group who where taken to court for their protest in a Russian Orthodox church against the Putin government.

    Two of the band's members have been sent to two years imprisonment/hard labour. Sounds a bit similar to some unpleasant aspects of Russia's past in the Soviet era, I think.

    This wikipedia entry makes that comparison too, ironically its banned due to p8ssy riot being the name of this band. So you have to search for it yourself!

    There's also been the case of this youtube video going 'viral' and getting many hits of a Russian Orthodox priest kissing Mr. Putin's hand. This has become like a symbol of how some people see the relations between Church and State in Russia as too close for comfort. Mr. Putin is a practising member of the Orthodox faith. Looks to me he's using it a bit for political leverage, and Soviet leaders of the past did that kind of thing too (eg. Stalin, during the war, eased repression of the church to raise morale in the war effort).
    Last edited by Sid James; Oct-29-2012 at 02:20.
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  7. #22
    Senior Member quack's Avatar
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    In the middle of the summer Moses the raven suddenly reappeared on the farm, after an absence of several years. He was quite unchanged, still did no work, and talked in the same strain as ever about Sugarcandy Mountain. He would perch on a stump, flap his black wings, and talk by the hour to anyone who would listen.
    -- Animal Farm

    Putin is an autocratic Tsar. He has destroyed the multi-party system established under communism, the parties that are left merely look on while he maintains power, anyone who could challenge him is in jail or exile. So he strengthens the church to legitimise his rule, giving it lots of money to rebuild churches as tourist traps in moscow and voter traps in the provinces. His pet patriarch Kirill doesn't seem very subtle, drunk on the wealth and influence gained. He buys an expensive Swiss watch while 18 million Russians live in poverty then denies he every had it and does a worse photoshop job on it than 1930s soviet censors would have. http://rt.com/news/patriarch-watch-photo-scandal-326/ Also http://www.theglobaldispatches.com/a...tins-patriarch

    In other music news, the new islamist regime in northern Mali that took power during the Arab spring is doing what it can to ban music in a country that has one of the strongest musical traditions in Africa. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012...lare-war-music






  8. #23
    Senior Member regressivetransphobe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sid James View Post
    Just necroing this thread, as news has come in of the punk rock group who where taken to court for their protest in a Russian Orthodox church against the Putin government.

    Two of the band's members have been sent to two years imprisonment/hard labour. Sounds a bit similar to some unpleasant aspects of Russia's past in the Soviet era, I think.

    This wikipedia entry makes that comparison too, ironically its banned due to p8ssy riot being the name of this band. So you have to search for it yourself!

    There's also been the case of this youtube video going 'viral' and getting many hits of a Russian Orthodox priest kissing Mr. Putin's hand. This has become like a symbol of how some people see the relations between Church and State in Russia as too close for comfort. Mr. Putin is a practising member of the Orthodox faith. Looks to me he's using it a bit for political leverage, and Soviet leaders of the past did that kind of thing too (eg. Stalin, during the war, eased repression of the church to raise morale in the war effort).
    Looks like people complaining on twitter with some obligatory support from Lady Gaga & Madonna still doesn't make much of a difference in some countries.

    Millions of "regular folks" listen to commercial country radio here in the states. They feed you tailor made corporate country music with all the familiar themes. Nationalism, love for beer, pick up trucks, and the pseudo patriotic war glory anthems by singers like Toby Keith. This is accompanied by syndicated right wing talk radio programs by Rush Limbaugh and Michael Savage. The brainwashing is very effective on tired, frightened uneducated working people who are getting poorer every year. Too tired to think? The scapegoat baiter's have all the answers for ya!
    Agreed with everything you say about country music, but which is more likely? It's a tightly knit neocon conspiracy to brainwash citizens? Or sponsors simply know what kind of braindead drivel makes money with already disenfranchised people and so they shelve it out? I think it's just a snowballing of greed, laziness, and lack of culture & education.
    Last edited by regressivetransphobe; Oct-29-2012 at 05:27.
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  9. #24
    Senior Member PetrB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sid James View Post
    I was listening during the week to some of Nina Simone's songs, eg. 'Mississippi Goddam', a protest during the 1960's against segregation of African American people. Its a very political song for the time, its basically a very angry protest against discrimination and oppression.

    But recently I also heard news of a punk rock band being taken to court in Russia for storming a cathedral and doing a kind of protest with music. Details at REuters here:
    http://in.reuters.com/article/2012/0...8IU5RZ20120730

    They are still in gaol and they can possibly get 7 years imprisonment (or worse) for their alleged crime. There are accusations of censorship here against President Putin (who this band are opponents of).

    I don't know if Nina Simone was censored (maybe in America's south they would not play her music, that kind of thing was not unheard of then). But her lyrics, some of them, are disturbingly still relevant today. Has much changed, I wonder?

    But I'm interested in people giving examples of censorship of rock, jazz, metal, R&B, hip hop and so on (all non-classical).

    & maybe also a discussion about what's the limits of these things? Are there any cases where banning or censorship can be justified? Who should decide? (eg. in the Russian case, a court is hearing the case)


    For reference/comparison, I did an earlier thread on classical music that was banned here:
    Music that was BANNED...
    Sid: each cited 'case' here is more a matter of the text in the musical vehicle than the music itself.... Meaning it is, once again as usual, words being censored, not 'a bunch of notes.'
    i.e. it is not MUSIC which is being censored in these cases.


    just sayin' :-)
    Last edited by PetrB; Oct-29-2012 at 09:15.

  10. #25
    Senior Member KenOC's Avatar
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    In the case referred to, the ladies' band gave a quite unauthorized performance in a church, a performance that was stopped by church security personnel. The band was charged with "hooliganism," a vaguely-defined offense that seems handy in Russia.

    Just to note that the charge has no connection with the lyrics. Of course, if they had sung Putin's praises, things might have been different. Clarifying only; there was no overt "censorship" involved. Still...
    Last edited by KenOC; Oct-29-2012 at 09:47.

  11. #26
    Junior Member Metalkitsune's Avatar
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    I read somewhere, that during the 80's or so that South Korea banned heavy metal on all it's radio stations and gave metalheads haircuts on the spot.

  12. #27
    Senior Member millionrainbows's Avatar
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    Remember the incident where Pete Seeger's band "The Weavers" got blacklisted during the McCarthy era for being "Communist?"

    "This Land Is Your Land"---obviously a socialist, if not Communist sentiment.
    "If I Had a Hammer"---and a sickle?
    "Give Peace a Chance"----Support our troops; if you're not with us, you're helping the terrorists.

    img.GuthrieWoodyOne801.jpg

    Any connection, implied or stated, between Pete Seeger, Woody Guthrie, Communism, Ruth Crawford Seeger, Bob Dylan, the 50s, the 60s, or John Lennon is purely coincidental.
    Last edited by millionrainbows; Oct-30-2012 at 06:08.
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  13. #28
    Senior Member KenOC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by millionrainbows View Post
    Remember the incident where Pete Seeger's band "The Weavers" got blacklisted during the McCarthy era for being "Communist?"

    "This Land Is Your Land"---obviously a socialist, if not Communist sentiment.
    "If I Had a Hammer"---and a sickle?
    "Give Peace a Chance"----Support our troops; if you're not with us, you're helping the terrorists.
    For the record, Seeger was an easy target in those days. "In 1936, at the age of 17, Pete Seeger joined the Young Communist League (YCL), then at the height of its popularity and influence. In 1942 he became a member of the Communist Party USA (CPUSA) itself. He eventually 'drifted away' (his words) from the Party in the late 1940s and 1950s."

    Also for the record, Give Peace a Chance was written in 1969 by John Lennon.
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  14. #29
    Senior Member starthrower's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by regressivetransphobe View Post
    Agreed with everything you say about country music, but which is more likely? It's a tightly knit neocon conspiracy to brainwash citizens? Or sponsors simply know what kind of braindead drivel makes money with already disenfranchised people and so they shelve it out? I think it's just a snowballing of greed, laziness, and lack of culture & education.
    I'm not speaking of brainwashing as far as radio music programming goes. It's pure cynicism on the part of the music business.

    But there is a vigorous campaign on the part of the media to deceive and mislead people. That's why pundits like Rush Limbaugh, Michael Savage, and Sean Hannity are on the air everyday feeding people lies and spin.

    Even the so called real news people won't be honest about why America is in Afghanistan, and why Iraq was invaded.

    And every nation brainwashes their school children with the national mythology so they will be filled with pride and march and die when the government wants to go to war.

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    Senior Member quack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KenOC View Post
    Also for the record, Give Peace a Chance was written in 1969 by John Lennon.
    But when Lennon sang it he was just being annoyingly hippy, when Seeger sung it a few months later he was being dangerously subversive.

    http://openvault.wgbh.org/catalog/vi...m-protest-1969
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