Thread: Tristan's love potion

What is the actual purpose of the Love potion in Tristan ans Isolde? They already love each other before the potion. Maybe it's like a double martini or pan galactic gargle blaster, it removes the inhibitions

It serves its purpose in delivering about 20 additional minutes of sublime music.

That and one must understand how society lived in those days.

Nowadays we assume that everyone loves/marries with whom he/she is in love with. Since the Romantic period that has been assumed for sure.

Before Queen Victoria's marriage, European noble marriages were arranged without love having to do with it. Also we must think that men and women weren't equals. It was quite accepted noblemen having mistresses but not for women likewise (there are exceptions).

Also another important matter was the lineage. Isolde was a princess to be married with a king. It would be unthinkable someone in a higher social status to marry with someone with a lower one.

Also although Tristan loved Isolde, he also loved and had a enormous respect for his uncle. To choose to love Isolde, it would break King Marke's heart, destroy King Marke's credibility before his people in Cornwall (which could lead to the downfall of the then recently established country).

If Tristan would follow his feelings, all the land would suffer and he would suffer beacuse of its suffering.

Love potion frees Tristan from his earthly duties and symbolizes our Id (Freudian's term). We in life, because we are bent to it, must most of the times to choose rationally rather than emotionally. If you can live according with your desire and your will, good for you, but the majority of people doesn't have the same luck.


So the love potion, from a simple love story, simbolizes more than alcohol.

I think it was rather like a Pan-Galactic Gargle Blaster. I definitely think there were some emotions there to begin with.

Originally Posted by drpraetorus

What is the actual purpose of the Love potion in Tristan ans Isolde? They already love each other before the potion. Maybe it's like a double martini or pan galactic gargle blaster, it removes the inhibitions

Tristan had been sent to bring Isolde ,the intended bride of King Mark ,from Ireland to Cornwall.
Isolde recognises Tristan as the knight who slew her betrothed and orders her companion Brangane to prepare poison so that she may gain revenge.
But a mix-up occurs and Tristan and Isolde end up drinking a love potion.

Originally Posted by dionisio

That and one must understand how society lived in those days.

Nowadays we assume that everyone loves/marries with whom he/she is in love with. Since the Romantic period that has been assumed for sure.

Before Queen Victoria's marriage, European noble marriages were arranged without love having to do with it. Also we must think that men and women weren't equals. It was quite accepted noblemen having mistresses but not for women likewise (there are exceptions).

Also another important matter was the lineage. Isolde was a princess to be married with a king. It would be unthinkable someone in a higher social status to marry with someone with a lower one.

Also although Tristan loved Isolde, he also loved and had a enormous respect for his uncle. To choose to love Isolde, it would break King Marke's heart, destroy King Marke's credibility before his people in Cornwall (which could lead to the downfall of the then recently established country).

If Tristan would follow his feelings, all the land would suffer and he would suffer beacuse of its suffering.

Love potion frees Tristan from his earthly duties and symbolizes our Id (Freudian's term). We in life, because we are bent to it, must most of the times to choose rationally rather than emotionally. If you can live according with your desire and your will, good for you, but the majority of people doesn't have the same luck.


So the love potion, from a simple love story, simbolizes more than alcohol.

Do you actually know the opera?

Originally Posted by moody

Tristan had been sent to bring Isolde ,the intended bride of King Mark ,from Ireland to Cornwall.
Isolde recognises Tristan as the knight who slew her betrothed and orders her companion Brangane to prepare poison so that she may gain revenge.
But a mix-up occurs and Tristan and Isolde end up drinking a love potion.

There is a twist in there, Isolde first met a disguised Tristan wounded from battle and she used her potions to cure him later to learn he was the one who killed her future husband Morold. She was about to kill Tristan with his own sword but when eyes met she had pity on him and spared his life under the condition he leave and never return.....

Not only did Tristan break his promise and returned but under the most humiliating circumstance of forcing Isolde to marry the enemy king .....a double vile insult. Thus the poison potion was to exact revenge on Tristan and to free her from the vile duty of marrying the king against her wishes

The ironic twist of mistakenly both drinking love potion and the further downward spiral of this doomed love affair are all tied to Wagners fascination with Schopenhauer philosophy and unhappiness caused by pursuing unacheivable desires.....

Originally Posted by DarkAngel

There is a twist in there, Isolde first met a disguised Tristan wounded from battle and she used her potions to cure him later to learn he was the one who killed her future husband Morold. She was about to kill Tristan with his own sword but when eyes met she had pity on him and spared his life under the condition he leave and never return.....

Not only did Tristan break his promise and returned but under the most humiliating circumstance of forcing Isolde to marry the enemy king .....a double vile insult. Thus the poison potion was to exact revenge on Tristan and to free her from the vile duty of marrying the king against her wishes

The ironic twist of mistakenly both drinking love potion and the further downward spiral of this doomed love affair are all tied to Wagners fascination with Schopenhauer philosophy and unhappiness caused by pursuing unacheivable desires.....

Couple comments:

I believe Isolde and Tristan fell in love to each other at the moment when Isolde tried to kill the disguised Tantris (the name Tristan called himself at that time) for revenge. But they never expressed the love to each other.

The reason why Tristan persuaded King Mark to marry Isolde, and voluntarily to go get her was really a puzzle. Perhaps he missed her so much and did not realized the consequence.

So when their journey came close to the end, both realized the hopeless reality. I believe they really loved and hated each other at that moment. (Isolde was more hateful because she felt Tristan betrayed her by offering her to the King.) That was why both were willing to commit to death. Remember: Isolde ordered Tristan to drink the poison. Tristan, with all hopes lost, did not hesitate to obey. Isolde, also wanted to die with him, took the poison (potion) immediately as well.

Both were thinking they were going to die, so nothing mattered anymore: they were finally free! Free to express their love at last!! When the love potion took effects, they did not care anything any more! They were embracing each other, dying together, but at least they were able to express the love to each other! They did not realize the switch of the potion until they could not separate from each other, which eventually led to the sad tragedy!

So love potion is a release of their free will, both were free to express their true feelings to each other, before their presumed death.

Originally Posted by drpraetorus

What is the actual purpose of the Love potion in Tristan ans Isolde? They already love each other before the potion. Maybe it's like a double martini or pan galactic gargle blaster, it removes the inhibitions

I can't make the argument that Tristan & Isolde's love is "unconsummatable" without the love potion. Without the love potion, we have a mere Romeo and Juliet story (been there, done that), not the exodus of the perceived maximal limit of human emotion itself.

Originally Posted by moody

Do you actually know the opera?

Why do you ask?

Originally Posted by powerbooks

The reason why Tristan persuaded King Mark to marry Isolde, and voluntarily to go get her was really a puzzle. Perhaps he missed her so much and did not realized the consequence.

Tristan went to get Isolde for King Mark for a couple of reasons. One is that people around King Mark were beginning to feel suspicion of Tristan, since Tristan was the next in succession to Mark's throne. This suspicion was fostered by Melot, who was scheming to become next in line himself. Tristan wanted to prove that his friendship for Mark was untainted by any such self-interest, so he convinced Mark that he should marry Isolde, who would then become next in line to succeed to the throne. Tristan was then planning to go away and never be around Cornwall again. This knightly notion of self-sacrifice for the ideal of honor can also be seen in the fact that Tristan was willing to kill himself by drinking the poison after Isolde accused him of dealing with her deceitfully. Tristan was therefore willing to take this plan of sacrifice to the ultimate extent of dying for it.

So that's one reason. And a second reason that dovetails with that, is that by marrying Isolde, Mark would be re-asserting power over the newly-chastened Ireland. Cornwall would then be subsuming Ireland under its power by solidifying the connection with a marriage. So this is presumably why Tristan was able to convince Mark that he should marry Isolde.

And yes, while Tristan and Isolde secretly loved each other before either of them drank the love potion, this love would not have come to anything had they not drunk the potion. They would have died if they had been successful in their initial attempt to do away with themselves. On a deep, thematic level, the drinking of the love potion signifies that the lovers lose conscious control of their desires, falling under the spell of their drives.

Originally Posted by dionisio

Why do you ask?

Because your rather rambling post seems to have little connection to the opera itself.

Let's discuss this without making reference to other members' posting styles or and without putting others down.

It tastes good.
A fine Bordeaux.

Originally Posted by Glissando

Tristan went to get Isolde for King Mark for a couple of reasons. One is that people around King Mark were beginning to feel suspicion of Tristan, since Tristan was the next in succession to Mark's throne. This suspicion was fostered by Melot, who was scheming to become next in line himself. Tristan wanted to prove that his friendship for Mark was untainted by any such self-interest, so he convinced Mark that he should marry Isolde, who would then become next in line to succeed to the throne. Tristan was then planning to go away and never be around Cornwall again. This knightly notion of self-sacrifice for the ideal of honor can also be seen in the fact that Tristan was willing to kill himself by drinking the poison after Isolde accused him of dealing with her deceitfully. Tristan was therefore willing to take this plan of sacrifice to the ultimate extent of dying for it.

So that's one reason. And a second reason that dovetails with that, is that by marrying Isolde, Mark would be re-asserting power over the newly-chastened Ireland. Cornwall would then be subsuming Ireland under its power by solidifying the connection with a marriage. So this is presumably why Tristan was able to convince Mark that he should marry Isolde.

And yes, while Tristan and Isolde secretly loved each other before either of them drank the love potion, this love would not have come to anything had they not drunk the potion. They would have died if they had been successful in their initial attempt to do away with themselves. On a deep, thematic level, the drinking of the love potion signifies that the lovers lose conscious control of their desires, falling under the spell of their drives.

Very good analysis.

However, the first reason was not totally convincing. If Tristan wanted to show loyalty, he would persuade the King to marry any woman, not necessarily Isolde. But I think your second reasoning explained part of this question.

Still, if Tristan wanted to leave, there was no need to die. I think his death wish was really because of the prospect of Isolde marrying the King, which would make his own love for Isolde impossible and intolerable. Same was true to Isolde's own death wish. They both secretly loved each other but were too proud (with honor) to admit openly, even using hate as an excuse to not seeing or talking to each other. Sounds familiar to all those boys and girls in love?

So, psychologically, "this love would not have come to anything had they not drunk the potion" was a catch-22 statement. Yes, the love would not explode without drinking the potion; but no, the love would have exploded even if it was a real poison but a true poison. Both of them believed the sudden feeling of love was due to the effect of poison. However, thinking they were dying, both of them did not care anymore, and let the true love explode after all the suppression and depression!


That's another aspect of the power of love and death.

"They would have died if they had been successful in their initial attempt to do away with themselves" is really an understatement.