Thread: Absolute or Programmic Music

So which do you prefer?

Absolute Music OR Programme Music

I voted for absolute music. I just want to say that there is no such thing as truly programmatic music can not describe extra-musical things, however music can evoke extra-musical ideas, emotions etc. in the listener. All music can be interpreted as absolute music and program music in that regard.

This was an incredibly tough choice. My favourite pieces are probably absolute music, simply because Bach, Beethoven, Mozart and Haydn predate that trend, but I really enjoy program music, especially when it comes to symphonies eg. Liszt, Berlioz, Mahler. Program music can also be quite vague. Debussy's La Mer, for instance, clearly has a program but one that isn't too prescriptive. It is also easier to latch on to music with a program, but whether that is a good or bad thing is up to personal opinion.

Originally Posted by ComposerOfAvantGarde

I voted for absolute music. I just want to say that there is no such thing as truly programmatic music can not describe extra-musical things, however music can evoke extra-musical ideas, emotions etc. in the listener. All music can be interpreted as absolute music and program music in that regard.

I would say that program music attempts to evoke non-emotional ideas or emotional ideas acccording to some predefined narrative. eg Pacific 231 or A Faust Symphony. Absolute music only conveys emotion in that the tempo and tension can be altered to achieve an effect on the listener as the work progresses.

Well... it depends upon how one interprets the term "program music". Considering the amount of vocal music I listen to... and the fact that in most instances the music evokes or suggests an external idea/mood/feeling/narrative... if only through the text... I would have to go with Program Music.

I don't think I could ever pick between the 2. A symphony, or a ballet? A concerto, or a tone poem? Nope, I love both equally, couldn't turn down one over the other. I like putting programs to absolute music, so that may show an affinity I have for programs. I truly love stories. But when it's absolute, I can make my own story, rather than have someone else's imposed on me, right? So, both programmatic and absolute are wonderful.

That isn't a dividing line that I normally associate as either good or bad. I like things on both sides equally.

I'm not thinking that one is better than the other. I simply listen to music that might be termed as programmatic more than I listen to "absolute" music... ie. I listen to vocal music more than any other genre... and then there's a good amount of non-vocal music that is also programmatic.

Program music or absolute music? Which is which? I don't think a clear line can be drawn.

Critics delight in turning absolute music into program music by "explaining" what the composer had in mind in non-musical terms. Just look at Beethoven's 5th! Or Mahler! Is the Leonore #3 absolute or program? Hmmmm? And we can hear a piece of what is clearly program music, based on the composer's intent, and hear it quite happily as absolute music if we don't know the program.

Does anybody really care what the story of "The Cursed Huntsman" is?

Originally Posted by ComposerOfAvantGarde

I voted for absolute music. I just want to say that there is no such thing as truly programmatic music can not describe extra-musical things, however music can evoke extra-musical ideas, emotions etc. in the listener. All music can be interpreted as absolute music and program music in that regard.

Right, but there are actually pointed extra-musical associations in a lot of music. Not just in the listener's head, mind you, but part of the concept of the piece.

Originally Posted by KenOC

Program music or absolute music? Which is which? I don't think a clear line can be drawn.

Critics delight in turning absolute music into program music by "explaining" what the composer had in mind in non-musical terms. Just look at Beethoven's 5th! Or Mahler! Is the Leonore #3 absolute or program? Hmmmm? And we can hear a piece of what is clearly program music, based on the composer's intent, and hear it quite happily as absolute music if we don't know the program.

Does anybody really care what the story of "The Cursed Huntsman" is?

Ummmm... yes, if it's a good story. Not everyone has to be into that kind of stuff, but do you mean to suggest that it's pretentious to dig into themes and stories?

Originally Posted by Lukecash12

Right, but there are actually pointed extra-musical associations in a lot of music. Not just in the listener's head, mind you, but part of the concept of the piece.

Have a listen to the first movement of my piano sonata in d minor (one of my early compositions, see link in signature) and tell me what I was describing.

I like almost absolute-ish music the most. The sort of thing where different themes and motifs seem to take on dramatic significance but it's impossible to describe exactly what they evoke.

Originally Posted by ComposerOfAvantGarde

Have a listen to the first movement of my piano sonata in d minor (one of my early compositions, see link in signature) and tell me what I was describing.

You seem to have interpreted me as if I was suggesting that themes are intrinsic to the musical notes themselves. I had actually suggested that the associations are there and can be found and referenced back to the music. Many of them are famous.

Originally Posted by ComposerOfAvantGarde

Have a listen to the first movement of my piano sonata in d minor (one of my early compositions, see link in signature) and tell me what I was describing.

The rolling, looming melodrama of a TC thread? Well as you may have composed that BTC i'd guess at a subtitle along the lines of "Busy Day Packing". In which the excitement of anticipation drives you on while you organise, pack or tidy something rapidly but with the undercurrent of nervousness that you might have forgotten something or will not get finished in time. Am I close?

My opinion, there is no absolute music, we are just not privy to the composer's program and even they aren't frequently. To deny a program is mere hubris. ;~)

"Never trust the teller, trust the tale. The proper function of a critic is to save the tale from the artist who created it." -- D.H. Lawrence