Page 25 of 25 FirstFirst ... 152122232425
Results 361 to 371 of 371

Thread: Alma Deutscher

  1. #361
    Senior Member KenOC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    SoCal, USA
    Posts
    13,350
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Sarcasm? You made no attempt to answer my questions. Repeat: Who’s exploiting Alma, what's their motive, and what are the evidences that cause you to believe that?
    Last edited by KenOC; Jan-01-2017 at 08:58.


  2. #362
    Senior Member stomanek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    1,548
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KenOC View Post
    Sarcasm? You made no attempt to answer my questions. Repeat: Who’s exploiting Alma, what's their motive, and what are the evidences that cause you to believe that?
    Charlotte Church was in a similar position in the 90s - a lot of people were saying she's being exploited etc - but she handled the publicity superby well - landed a big money deal with sony and is probably happy now as an adult with what happened to her as a child.
    If Alma has her heart set on a musical career - the publicity her parents have encouraged and taken full advantage of wont do her any harm. She is now far more famous than most fully accomplished composers and her music will indeed find a market. If her parents have any sense they will release some more of her music on CD and strike while there is interest. I certainly wouldnt blame them for wanting to recoup some of the enormous expense they have endured getting Alma to where she is now.

    That being said - there are some things about Cinderella which I think are questionable. The Telegraph journalist claims that all the promo material on Cinderella shows no sign it was composed by a young child. So who are these people that bought tickets and what did they think they were going to see? Or is it just that seasonal phenomena that Cinderella opera in Vienna will sell out if the name Zubin Mehta is next to it? Wouldnt some ticket holders feel deceived? Some might think it is the opera by Rossini. So they should really have foregrounded Alma in the marketing campaign so people know what they are paying their money for. That's my only objection.

  3. #363
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    61
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by stomanek View Post

    ... there are some things about Cinderella which I think are questionable. The Telegraph journalist claims that all the promo material on Cinderella shows no sign it was composed by a young child. So who are these people that bought tickets and what did they think they were going to see? Or is it just that seasonal phenomena that Cinderella opera in Vienna will sell out if the name Zubin Mehta is next to it? Wouldnt some ticket holders feel deceived? Some might think it is the opera by Rossini. So they should really have foregrounded Alma in the marketing campaign so people know what they are paying their money for. That's my only objection.
    There is one thing that should be clarified and that is that Alma's name is on the posters, what is not on the posters is any indication that the composer is in fact a child, in other words there were no headlines along the lines of: "WRITTEN BY THE FAMOUS CHILD PRODIGY ALMA DEUTSCHER" or something similar. So one would have to be familiar with Alma to know that Cinderella was written by a child if all you saw was the posters.
    Last edited by sadams; Jan-01-2017 at 17:45.

  4. #364
    Senior Member stomanek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    1,548
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sadams View Post
    There is one thing that should be clarified and that is that Alma's name is on the posters, what is not on the posters is any indication that the composer is in fact a child, in other words there were no headlines along the lines of: "WRITTEN BY THE FAMOUS CHILD PRODIGY ALMA DEUTSCHER" or something similar. So one would have to be familiar with Alma to know that Cinderella was written by a child if all you saw was the posters.
    And that is exactly what I am saying - buyers do not know that Alma started this opera when she was 7 and completed it by the age of 11. I think buyers would assume, if they dont know who Alma is, that she is an accomplished adult composer. I think the promoters should put her age in brackets after her name.

    Of course Alma got a standing ovation - it would take the meanest cynic to sit stobbornly with tightened lips while hundreds of people stand and cheer what is a monumental achievement by a young person.
    Last edited by stomanek; Jan-01-2017 at 18:00.

  5. #365
    Senior Member Sloe's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    2,165
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by stomanek View Post
    And that is exactly what I am saying - buyers do not know that Alma started this opera when she was 7 and completed it by the age of 11. I think buyers would assume, if they dont know who Alma is, that she is an accomplished adult composer. I think the promoters should put her age in brackets after her name.

    Of course Alma got a standing ovation - it would take the meanest cynic to sit stobbornly with tightened lips while hundreds of people stand and cheer what is a monumental achievement by a young person.
    I doubt most people are that ignorant so they don't read about the composer or opera before they buy tickets for 69 euro.

  6. Likes David OByrne liked this post
  7. #366
    New Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    3
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I have registered to put my ha'pworth. One thing that intrigued me about Alma is that she lives in the same town I grew up in, so I feel a certain affinity there. There seems a lot of snootiness on this board, as if she should be expected at any age to conform to a set standard of composition. Where I live now, the local composer is Elgar, whose first symphony broke every rule in the book and whose quadrilles he wrote in his twenties as bandmaster in a lunatic asylum compare well with what is coming out of Alma now. Yet whose work was Nimrod, or the Cello Concerto, or a chestful of wonderful part songs? When I revisit the work of Elgar, it is like revisiting a very old and dear friend, and Alma's music is the same, and is improving all the time.

    Others can compare her to Mozart. For me, a better comparison is Clara Schumann. A very talented concert pianist as a child and a competent composer, who married the family lodger (a sensitive composer suffering all his life from depression) in the teeth of opposition from her father. Her greatest contribution came later in life when she turned on its head the old classical convention that music was there for the virtuoso to show off, and rather she insisted that music itself was the master, and that the composer's intention and feelings were paramount. Over a century later in the 1960s, I was introduced myself to that school of thinking and have held with it ever since.

    There is a great deal of imagination and sensitivity in Alma's music, both as a performer and as a composer. There is also a sense of fun, which cannot be got from an algorithm or conventional musicology. I myself have experienced the loss I felt when I heard a beautiful Swedish violinist play at a festival in Shropshire, and I had already lost the sound of her music on my way home and was desperate to find it again. It is like losing the sound of the voice of a deceased loved one. A piece of music I could hum in its entirety at the age of five was dismissed as doggerel by those that know better, and all traces of it have been erased, yet I yearn to hear it again - the Associated-Rediffusion March by Simon Bates - the start-up theme to a TV station that was superceded in 1964.

    I have had the chance to know well the 2nd and 3rd movements of that violin concerto, and bits of the 1st. The impression I get is that I am sure I have heard it all before - it seems all so familiar - yet I doubt anyone can find out precisely where it was plagiarised from. Alma, when composing Cinderella, claims that she formed an imaginary company of four master composers, and she takes her writing styles from them, and probably also their music. Regardless of the theoretical propriety of it, it is earworm music and sticks in the head like a TV commercial jingle or something by Eric Coates. The first movement doesn't quite fit the other two - being more Bach-like in its regularity and might be better standing alone as a separate piece. I think she may well rewrite the first movement to fit in better with the other two, which might explain why there is no complete performance of it on YouTube. I loved the sentimentality and the dreaminess of the second movement especially, and regardless that the main theme repeats itself perhaps a little too often, the third movement is such a happy piece, leaving me smiling and happy myself at the end of it. All said and done, the only purpose for romantic music of any style is to convey feelings.

    So what happens next? Alma is about to enter puberty. What will she make of the much wider and deeper range of feelings and emotions that adolescence and adulthood will bring her? Will there be prodigy burnout? Will she go in a totally different direction like Charlotte Church (but I must say that Alma is already a better operatic soprano at 11 than Church was when she became famous with that bog-standard piece from the Fauré Requiem).

    For me though, this is an experiment in that someone born in the 21st century can produce music with no reference whatsoever to mid 20th century atonality or primary school banality and yet appeal to audiences raised in the computer age. I wish her well.
    Last edited by Elmbeard; Jan-09-2017 at 02:20.

  8. Likes KenOC, Nereffid liked this post
  9. #367
    New Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    3
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    @stomanek above: I think it was intentional not to labour Alma's age, preferring instead to gamble that Cinderella will stand or fall on its own merits. Whether this was commercially wise, I do think this was more respectful of Alma's own welfare, well aware that today's child prodigy is tomorrow's struggling session musician.

    There is nothing wrong with a successful composer making a virtue of skillful marketing. Both Händel and Dvorzak was notorious for it, as John Rutter is today. Being heard and attracting decent audiences is two-thirds of the battle. Since Alma will very shortly leave childhood behind, better not to make a unique selling proposition that it is the work of a child, but rather make a selling point something which she can take through with her into adulthood.

    If I had heard about the opera before tickets sold out, I might well have gone. Not because it was composed by an 11-year-old, but because there are several parts of the opera's narrative that resound with me personally (I gave one example in my last post). Philosophically, with all the confusion by today's gender politics and in my own loneliness, I find it very reassuring that in Alma's own words "they find one another in the end, as lyrics find melody".

    I care not a jot about reputation - for me music is the beginning and the end, and as a performer I can only hope I do not get in the way.
    Last edited by Elmbeard; Jan-09-2017 at 02:08.

  10. Likes KenOC liked this post
  11. #368
    Senior Member tdc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    5,744
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Elmbeard View Post
    For me, a better comparison is Clara Schumann... Her greatest contribution came later in life when she turned on its head the old classical convention that music was there for the virtuoso to show off, and rather she insisted that music itself was the master, and that the composer's intention and feelings were paramount. Over a century later in the 1960s, I was introduced myself to that school of thinking and have held with it ever since.
    I don't think it was ever a classical convention that music was there for the virtuoso to show off.

  12. Likes Chronochromie, isorhythm liked this post
  13. #369
    New Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    3
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Cadenzas?

    Quote Originally Posted by tdc View Post
    I don't think it was ever a classical convention that music was there for the virtuoso to show off.
    The whole point about a Baroque cadenza is to show off. I find it quite fun hearing what each tenor makes of the cadenza in 'Every Valley' in Handel's Messiah - does he sneak in an extra twiddle on a top note? It's like power diving - extra marks for style and difficulty!

  14. #370
    Senior Member tdc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    5,744
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Elmbeard View Post
    The whole point about a Baroque cadenza is to show off. I find it quite fun hearing what each tenor makes of the cadenza in 'Every Valley' in Handel's Messiah - does he sneak in an extra twiddle on a top note? It's like power diving - extra marks for style and difficulty!
    Sure but this is just one aspect of the music that occurs in certain types of pieces, it is not what the 'music was there for' in an over arching sense then or now. None of the great composers (that I know of) have ever stated the underlying point of their music was so that the performer could show off. Further many composers continued to write virtuosic music and play cadenzas in the Romantic era and beyond so this aspect of music was not changed after C Schumann. There were also plenty of composers whose music was not about showcasing virtuosity centuries before C. Schumann.

    Much of the earliest music was written for the church. Writing a lot of virtuosic passages for performers was not a primary function of the compositions.
    Last edited by tdc; Jan-10-2017 at 00:21.

  15. Likes Bulldog, EdwardBast liked this post
  16. #371
    Senior Member stomanek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    1,548
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Elmbeard - thanks for your contribution.
    I think this is difficult territory for the board - Alma is still young and the only fair thing that can be said is she has done amazingly well - very impressive feats etc. She certanly does have amazing talent.
    She has had good fortune of course - that many other young composers with equal or superior talent have not - mass exposure virtue of Stephen Fry's twiiter comments. But there is nothing wrong with good fortune and clever management.

    What else can be said? The board wishes her the best and will follow her career with healthy curiosity.
    Last edited by stomanek; Jan-11-2017 at 07:25.

Page 25 of 25 FirstFirst ... 152122232425

Similar Threads

  1. Alma Mahler
    By FrankieP in forum Classical Music Discussion
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: Mar-08-2012, 22:23
  2. New disc "ALMA MATER - Music from the Vatican" released on Nov 30th
    By 10strat in forum Recorded Music and Publications
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: Nov-16-2009, 15:04

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •