Thread: How about an atonal music subforum?

Or contemporary classical (if you think it belongs in that category). I think the classical music discussion forum is divided on this issue of whether atonality is synonymous with classical music. So it seems less useful to have most discussions of atonality be about its divergence from classical music rather than talking about it on its own terms. I consider it to be a separate genre, myself.

If it's not classical music, then it doesn't belong even of a subforum of the "Talk Classical" forum. In any event, without our endless wrangles over the topic, this would be a very quiet (and more boring) place.

Originally Posted by KenOC

If it's not classical music, then it doesn't belong even of a subforum of the "Talk Classical" forum. In any event, without our endless wrangles over the topic, this would be a very quiet (and more boring) place.

Yet there is a non-classical subforum here, and many others to logically categorize classical music discussions. Which makes it more meaningful in the proper context. These atonal discussions are taking place out of context, essentially. But you seem to be saying that this is what you want. Even though such conversations amount to beating a dead horse. It should be about what people enjoy from the music, and as it is, they mostly argue over it being something other than classical.

Do you suppose people would argue about this if they didn't enjoy arguing?

Can't you argue about it in a separate forum, and get off my Bach?

In other words, the forum is described as "General discussion about classical music and composers". Okay, but the question of whether atonal music is generally something else is about the only thing they talk about. I think this clearly means that it is generally not accepted as classical music. Maybe you should change the forum description to "Perpetual arguments over what classical music is in general". It all comes back to this one point of departure as I see it. So a subforum would be nice.

Originally Posted by mud

So a subforum would be nice.

Actually, that might be interesting. Of course, they might come into *our* part of the forum and disrupt our serious and important conversations. To forestall this, we should probably invade *them* first!

Or they might go insane if we leave them alone to not argue about atonality amongst themselves.

Seriously though, most people do not know enough about both traditional classical music and contemporary styles to carry on meaningful conversations about them in the same forum. Each are so vast and divergent that they are really separate topics.

This forum goes through phases, mud. Stay here for a while, eg. a year or more, and we get spates of similar threads popping up all the time. Early this year we had a time when we got quite a few threads on Wagner (which I did a parody of myself, I don't have much time for his music, I'm afraid, and that period of uber-Wagnerism so to speak made my dislike of him into outright hate). So I think I support the status quo, if it ain't broke, don't fix it, as the cliche goes.

Any member is free to create and manage their own Social Group here on TC.

Note: the same rules apply to Social Groups as they do to the open boards.

Originally Posted by Sid James

This forum goes through phases, mud. Stay here for a while, eg. a year or more, and we get spates of similar threads popping up all the time. Early this year we had a time when we got quite a few threads on Wagner (which I did a parody of myself, I don't have much time for his music, I'm afraid, and that period of uber-Wagnerism so to speak made my dislike of him into outright hate). So I think I support the status quo, if it ain't broke, don't fix it, as the cliche goes.

I think it is broken on this issue, because it takes away from meaningful discussions on each side of it, that's all I am trying to say.

Originally Posted by Krummhorn

Any member is free to create and manage their own Social Group here on TC.

Note: the same rules apply to Social Groups as they do to the open boards.

Are you saying that a social group is necessary to discuss the non-contemporary classical music? If so I think it is a convoluted solution to the problem, which only marginalizes what this forum was based on (classical music).

Originally Posted by mud

I think it is broken on this issue, because it takes away from meaningful discussions on each side of it, that's all I am trying to say.

I stay away from these, as they tend to be revolving door, merry go round things. Like that 'what is the point of atonal music' thread, some of which is now spilling over into the alternative, more focussed 'Schoenberg - bogeyman or messiah?' thread. You try to right things but they turn out the same. So I don't add to the fire now, basically. Never had much time for that anyway.

But then when people take the high moral ground with the music they like, as opposed to what I don't like, that's the type of confrontation I really hate. Eg. 'you don't like composer x, so you're a [insert put down or negative judgement of the other's taste, etc.].' I just don't take that crapola anymore. So, how about a subforum for people who think they're better than all of us (this is only a bitter joke!).

But as KH said, the groups area of the forum might be something to look into.

Originally Posted by Sid James

So, how about a subforum for people who think they're better than all of us?

There wouldn't be anybody left here!