I seem to recall a very similar discussion in one of the Mahler threads. I awknowledge the fact that there is no real objectivity in music, and I'm sure it is difficult to fully understand how the composer meant their work to be played, with respect to every last detail. However, regardless, there is something that many people should come to expect when listening to a performance of a work by Beethoven, Mahler, Shostakovich, or whoever.

This is my opinion, so you can take it or leave it, but taking these kinds of extreme liberties with music which is so engrained in the classical music culture (or mainstream culture), as Cobra is doing, cheats (for lack of better words) all of the devoted listeners and fans, not to mention the composer. Needless to say, whenever people interpret a well-regarded piece such as Beethoven's 9th with as much elasticity as Cobra, it undermines the eminence of the piece itself.

Beethoven's eminence is strong enough to withstand Cobra. When he was used as soundtrack for 'Clockwork Orange' he withstood that. When Hitler and ministers eulogised him as great German speaking for the soul of the Reich, he survived that too. Beethoven's a tough old bird.

In which case Beethoven isn't worth preserving. But you can play Beethoven on kazoos and it wouldn't undermine his eminence. If this didn't undermine it, nothing will.

Uhhm...I see your point.

When I mentioned 'elasticity' I was speaking of 'how' it is played and the interpretation of the music itself, not the context in which it is used or played (and, yes, I would say it is pretty darn resilient in that regard!). Cobra's interpretation just doesn't live up to the reputation of the 9th. As a matter of fact, it seems to ridicule it.

I'm sure the 9th will continue to "live up" to its reputation after Cobra. Though, I would suddenly cast doubt on that if this kind of thing becomes a trend. Most importantly, I feel sorry for the people who have to live through this as their very first exposure to Beethoven, who, I would think, are few (especially given the possibility that such egregious performances are circulated for critique mostly among people such as us, who have heard it dozens of times already....I would hope :/ ).

The memory of Cobra's recordings has been haunting me like a nightmare, so I decided to investigate further.

On 22 December 1808, Beethoven conducted a concert of his own works at the Theater an der Wien in Vienna. According to Wikipedia's article about his 5th Symphony, that concert lasted over 4 hours (long enough!!!) and included the following works (after each work, I have indicated its average duration at usual today's tempi, and also its duration under Cobra - actual or extrapolated):

the Sixth Symphony (44' / 83')
Aria: "Ah, perfido", Op. 65 (14' / 28'*)
The Gloria movement of the Mass in C Major (10' / 20'*)
the Fourth Piano Concerto (34' / 68'*)
(intermission)
the Fifth Symphony (31' / 77')
the Sanctus and Benedictus movements of the C Major Mass (11' / 22'*)
a solo piano improvisation played by Beethoven (?)
the Choral Fantasy (20' / 40'*)
interval and pauses (45'**)

* extrapolation (since there is no recording of that work under Cobra, AFAIK)
** estimate

total duration of that concert (improvisation excepted):
- if played at usual today's tempi: 209' (3 hours and 29 minutes)
- if played at Cobra's tempi: 383' (6 hours and 23 minutes)

It is very probable that the interval and pauses actually took more than 45'. Also the improvisation probably took at least 10 minutes.

So, since the concert duration is documented, it seems that Beethoven conducted his works at roughly the usual tempi of today.

Unless Cobra proves that the concert of 22 December 1808 lasted over 6 hours, I do not believe his theory and I can now sleep peacefully without nightmares about his Beethoven interpretations / destructions.

I wonder if he braggs that he can play the "Minute waltz" in 1'59?


PS...OMG!

This is truly disgusting! UGH!!

...

...

And one wonders if anything worse could happen to the human race... this is your proof...

um... wow, that was...interesting. I think I need to go cleanse my mind after listening to that.