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12 Operas For The True Sophisticate

5K views 46 replies 18 participants last post by  JohnGerald 
#1 ·
I cannot describe the profound love I have for these 12. This list is in NO WAY exhaustive, but it does represent my absolute essentials.

Falstaff

Pelleas et Melisande

Capriccio

Mathis der Maler

Saint Francis of Assisi

Cosi Fan Tutte

Siegfried

Billy Budd

Moses and Aron

Doktor Faust

Palestrina

The Mask of Orpheus


***********

Have you ever met anyone who shares my maniacal enthusiasm for all of these works?
 
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#2 ·
My brother, a musician, loves COSI FAN TUTTE. I like FALSTAFF but am not yet familiar with COSI, or indeed with the others on your list.

If you want to make a complete list of operas for the "musical sophistocate" or the "connisseur," then I'd suggest adding THE RAKE'S PROGRESS (another of my brother's favorites) by Stravinsky. It seems to me that Bellini's operas are also "connisseurs' operas," in the sense that they'll never be truly popular crowd-pleasers but are more for the devotee of bel canto. I feel too that one of my favorite operas, LES CONTES D'HOFFMANN, appeals to a certain kind of sensibility. And finally, it seems that if you put FALSTAFF on the list then you also have to put OTELLO on the list -- but maybe that's just me.
 
#5 ·
It seems to me that Bellini's operas are also "connisseurs' operas," in the sense that they'll never be truly popular crowd-pleasers but are more for the devotee of bel canto.
yet 90% of them were smash hits when they premiered and most of them are regularly played. Don't know, I found them easy to get into but it's true that bel canto and I seem made for each other ;)

I'm surprised someone considers Cosi highfalutin'. Care to elaborate, Xavier?
 
#3 · (Edited)
Hi,

If you want to make a complete list of operas for the "musical sophistocate" or the "connisseur," then I'd suggest adding THE RAKE'S PROGRESS
Yes, I do like The Rake's Progress very much but I find Moses and Aron, Capriccio, Palestrina, Mathis der Maler, Doktor Faust even more wondrous.

And finally, it seems that if you put FALSTAFF on the list then you also have to put OTELLO on the list -- but maybe that's just me.
Needless to say I adore Otello but for me Falstaff will always be the crown jewel in Verdi.
 
#4 ·
It's odd: OTELLO is, like FALSTAFF, through-composed. And yet I find OTELLO the easier opera to "understand" and "follow" in the musical sense. Is this because OTELLO is not as complex or is a bit closer to a traditional "numbers" opera than FALSTAFF is? I wish someone more musically educated than I would try to explain this to me!
 
#8 ·
I know all of these operas except for The Mask of Orpheus , which I definitely want to get to know .
They're ll great , and mostly operas which newbies should wait to hear until they get to know the most
famous popular operas better .
Other rather esoteric operas which more people should get to know would be :

Lear , by Aribert Reimann ,

Die Gezeichneten by Franz Schreker ,

Padmavati by Albert Roussel ,

JUlietta by Bohuslav Martinu ,

King Roger by Karol Szymanowski ,

Saul & David by Carl Nielsen ,

The Handmaid's Tale by Poul Ruders ,

Flammen by Erwin Schulhoff ,

Le Roi Arthus (King Arthur ) , by Ernest Chausson ,

Ariane & Barbe Bleue , by Paul Dukas ,

Cardillac by Paul Hindemith ,

King Priam by Sir Michael Tippett ,

Die Agyptische Helena by Richard Strauss ,

Legend of the Invisible City of Kitezh by Rimsky-Korsakov ,

Notre Dame by Franz Schmidt ,

Le Grande Macabre by Gyorgy Ligeti .
 
#9 ·


The Mask of Orpheus is not a linear drama, but rather we are presented the same events from different points of view, playing with time, and with each main character split in three: Human (singer), Myth (off-stage voice and puppets) and Hero (mimes).

There are also six interludes with electronic music, a brilliant percussion, no strings in the orchestra ("They are not in the nature of the piece. The Rhythmic, percussive elements predominate. What would the strings bring to it?. They are too lyrical, too romantic, and I don't want Orpheus to be Romantic. I could try and escape this Romantic association of the strings, but how do you get away from the way the instruments speak?. In the end, I decided not to try". )...

It's a great work, but mainly for the avant-garde Opera lover.
 
#10 · (Edited)
Have you ever met anyone who shares my maniacal enthusiasm for all of these works?
Absolutely not. You're the only person I know whose "favourite operas" list perfectly matches the "operas for the true sophisticate" list. It may be because you're author of both, but still - you're the best and again, I confess from the bottom of my heart that I've never heard of another person who possessed the secret of The Purest and Deepest Form of Opera Love and deserves the title of True Sophisticate as much as you do. You stand high above the masses.

Well, not really. But your threads seem to be such intense plea for people to confirm this view... I thought I'll finally write it for you.
 
#16 · (Edited)
I've never even met anybody including myself who has ever mentioned that they have knowledge of the thing ,
St.Francis of Assisi that is. But I'm obviously no sophisticate.
I see that Donald Runnicles conducted it and he is brilliant. I also read that it's eight hours long ,strewth,or alternatively four hours long,which is it ?
 
#17 ·
I cannot describe the profound love I have for these 12: Falstaff, Pelleas et Melisande, Capriccio, Mathis der Maler, Saint Francis of Assisi, Cosi fan Tutte, Siegfried, Billy Budd, Moses and Aron, Doktor Faust, Palestrina, The Mask of Orpheus
Excellent choices overall, but I'd make some changes. Sticking with the same composers where I can, I'd have Die Frau ohne Schatten instead of Capriccio; Parsifal, not Siegfried; Turn of the Screw, not Billy Budd. I'd ditch the Busoni and Pfitzner, leaving space for Wozzeck and Tamerlano. BTW, any "sophisticated" list really ought to have L'Incoronazione di Poppea on it somewhere :)
 
#21 · (Edited)
Hi Reichstag,

Excellent choices overall, but I'd make some changes. Sticking with the same composers where I can, I'd have Die Frau ohne Schatten instead of Capriccio
I adore FroSch but the musical refinement of Capriccio wins me over every time. Strauss himself referred to it as a "delicacy for connoisseurs"

Parsifal, not Siegfried
Needless to say I venerate Parsifal but Siegfried is flawless and I simply love its comparative 'darkness', the preponderance of male voices, much of the orchestration (low strings, crashing brass sounds, etc), extensive dialogue scenes and short-winded parlando vocal writing, etc.

Turn of the Screw, not Billy Budd.
I still think Billy Budd is his finest masterpiece.

I'd ditch the Busoni and Pfitzner, leaving space for Wozzeck and Tamerlano.
OMG... Never!! :) Honestly, I love Doktor Faust more than Wozzeck. And while I freely acknowledge that Palestrina is a flawed and musically uneven piece its best sections are just too damn beautiful!! And the Council of Trent (Act 2) is one of my favorite acts in all opera.

Any "sophisticated" list really ought to have L'Incoronazione di Poppea on it somewhere :)
For the record - I am very fond of Monteverdi but if I had to choose one work it would be Ulysses' Return Home.
 
#26 ·
I venerate Parsifal but Siegfried is flawless and I simply love its comparative 'darkness'
Indeed, Xavier, but there's arguably too much action in Siegfried to make it a "connoisseur" piece - to fully appreciate the glacial beauty of Parsifal one perhaps needs a more "trained" ear... or at least more patience! Apart from the Klingsor episodes, Parsifal is like Siegfried's "Forest Murmurs" scene sustained, in masterly fashion, for 4 hours.
 
#22 ·
Billy Budd is great, St Francis is great. I recall being a little disappointed by the Busoni - I have it here somewhere and probably should give it another go. I'd ditch the Pfitzner and Hindemith too, both a bit stodgy for me. Cosi is looking like a real palette freshener in that company!
 
#23 · (Edited)
Die Soldaten ?
Les Troyens ?
Mefistofeles ?
Hansel and Gretel ?
 
#24 · (Edited)
Hi dgee,

I recall being a little disappointed by the Busoni - I have it here somewhere and probably should give it another go.
Yes, it's true that many seem to find the first 45 minutes (Symphonia, First Prologue and Second Prologue) "heavy going".... It does require unusual concentration.... My suggestion to the newcomers who find it off-putting is to start with the final hour (Second Scene in the Wittenberg Tavern: "SO LANG MAN JUGEND HAT" and Last Scene).... The music here is more "direct" and it really does repay careful listening with real pleasure!

I'd ditch the Pfitzner and Hindemith too, both a bit stodgy for me
How can any opera fan who loves Wagner not be overwhelmed by the beauties of the final 30 minutes of Act 1?.... (Palestrina's monologue "Nicht ich - nicht ich schwach bin ich voller Fehler", The Masters soft choruses, The Visitation Scene, etc.)

And that's only for starters. I find the previous 45 minutes beginning with Borromeo's entrance so involving!

I just don't understand why a general aversion towards this great (but flawed) work still persists.

:)
 
#25 ·
Just tried that section of Palestrina and it really is very nice! But about 15 mins into Act 2 it totally lost me. Might give it another go soon tho - there were some moments of quite a different sort of sound coming through in the tenor solo and chorus that were striking.
Cheers
 
#27 · (Edited)
dgee,

Just tried that section of Palestrina and it really is very nice!
See? I told you... :)

But about 15 mins into Act 2 it totally lost me. Might give it another go soon tho - there were some moments of quite a different sort of sound coming through in the tenor solo and chorus that were striking.
For some reason Act 2 has many detractors.

Here is what the Pulitzer prize winning music critic Tim Page once said:

Admittedly, Act 2 is a problem -- a noisy, clattering depiction of the Council of Trent, where Palestrina's work is judged by some decidedly unsympathetic counts, bishops, cardinals and other authorities. This act was intended as the most extreme possible contrast between the two acts that surround it -- opposing the chaos of the world (including the squabbling hierarchies that purport to speak for religion) to Palestrina's retreat, where everything is pure spirit. Intentionally brash, Act 2 lasts more than an hour; it is marred by the absence of female voices (which necessitates a certain timbral monotony) and it succeeds in conveying ugly emptiness rather too well for the health of the complete work.
Needless to say I totally disagree on every point!

Just give it time.

:tiphat:
 
#32 ·
Well, I have learned on this site that the true opera sophisticate must take a certain threshold of oom-pah-pah (or oom-pah-oom-pah) in each opera or they are deemed unworthy of the genre. Hence a list of revered masterworks that does not include Rigoletto, Aida or Il Trovatore simply makes one a peasant
 
#34 ·
I have one which a true sophisticate could never be without ;)

Gloria - a pigtale by H K Gruber

Roles
Gloria: Soprano
Solo pig and other roles: Mezzo Soprano
Gerhard and other roles: Tenor
Farmer and other roles: Baritone
Rodrigo and other roles: Bass

Time and Place
A farm in the mountains

Synopsis
Gloria is rather special from the beginning because she has naturally curly golden hair and she knows she is the most beautiful pig in the mountains. Unfortunately, she is also the saddest, as the pigs in her sty are envious and spiteful and cannot tolerate anything out of the ordinary. Her cousin Gerhard and his troop of fellow swine make this unmistakably clear to her in the 'March of the Pedigree Pigs': the pedigree white German pig is blond, and its hair is short with no nonsense about it. Anything else is deviant, really deviant - almost as bad as being a wild pig. Gloria, this lovely lady pig, is left with only her hopes and her longings. But longings are like blindfolds, so Gloria does not realise that the Prince, when he finally comes, is actually the butcher. The poor little sausages hanging on the wall sing her a song of thwarted hope, but their warnings seem to be in vain. The whole thing threatens to end in sausages - until love puts in an appearance in the shape of Rodrigo, the wild hero. He knows the ways of the world and he knows the butcher, and he rescues the gorgeous lady pig. At last it all turns out just as the oxen said it would.

And for once the hero is sung by the bass!!!
 
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