I'd just like to say (in case this thread gets shut down) that I am very proud of the way this discussion has gone. Seriously, it's one of the best, informative, and civil threads on 4'33" I have ever seen, far surpassing anything else I've seen elsewhere.
millionrainbows, without looking at most of this thread, I can see what you mean by calling 4'33" Eastern and sacred. But, I'm sure you've found this out, most people who shrug the work off don't do it because they think it Eastern or sacred, rather they think it's a dumb piece.
"It's troll music!"
"Anyone could have written that"
"It's not even music, it's a joke"
I like your perspective, and yes, I can understand 4'33" as a sacred work. If I "listen" to it again, I'll have to keep this in mind
In my view, 4'33" isn't so much a piece of music as it is a state of mind or philosophical statement. John Cage was in earnest when he wrote it, but it isn't something that must needs be relegated exclusively to the concert hall. It's an idea that you can put into practice at home, work, or play. Cage was fascinated by the sounds happening around him and we can be, too. Paying close attention to these sounds can affect the way we perceive the world.
Is it sacred? That depends on your opinion, I suppose.
Last edited by Celloman; Feb-04-2015 at 19:19.
What is music?
What is the relationship between sounds and listeners?
How might (not ought) one listen to sounds?
I don't think it's absurd, worthless, or trolling, but neither do I believe it is a work of music (my personal view). It was very courageous and certainly made many people think about issues they never had before.
Last edited by mmsbls; Feb-04-2015 at 19:48.
Regarding 4'33", there is something in the literal sense, and the question is whether it "constitutes a work of art" or is musically meaningful.
You may call 4'33" performance art, a gimmick, a con job, a trivial statement of some sort, whatever, but it is not music, no more than the pandemonium of a pair of street cats having a go at each other in the back alley is music. Quite astonished to learn so many actually subscribe to the idea of it being music and actually seem offended by those questioning its "sanctity"!
So is any sound art? Is there anything that is not art?