View Poll Results: Which of these composers do you like?

Voters
130. You may not vote on this poll
  • Alkan, Charles-Valentin (1813-1888)

    38 29.23%
  • Billings, William (1746-1800)

    6 4.62%
  • Borodin, Alexander (1833-1887)

    79 60.77%
  • Janequin, Clement (1474c-1560c)

    13 10.00%
  • Kerll, Johann Caspar (1627-1693)

    4 3.08%
  • Korngold, Erich (1897-1957)

    56 43.08%
  • Larsen, Libby (1950--)

    4 3.08%
  • Lutoslawski, Witold (1913-1994)

    46 35.38%
  • Parsons, Robert (1530c-1570)

    3 2.31%
  • Scelsi, Giacinto (1900-1988)

    24 18.46%
  • Schumann, Robert (1810-1856)

    99 76.15%
  • Sciarrino, Salvatore (1947--)

    12 9.23%
  • Telemann, Georg Philipp (1681-1767)

    55 42.31%
  • Zemlinsky, Alexander von (1872-1942)

    38 29.23%
  • I don't know any, or don't like any

    4 3.08%
Multiple Choice Poll.
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 30

Thread: A la carte Composer Poll #8 (Schumann, Borodin, Lutoslawski...)

  1. #1
    Senior Member Nereffid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Co. Dublin, Ireland
    Posts
    4,522
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    7

    Default A la carte Composer Poll #8 (Schumann, Borodin, Lutoslawski...)

    This is part of a series of polls simply asking "Which of these composers do you like?"
    Select as many as you want; I'll leave it up to you to decide what counts as "liking" a composer's music.
    As with my previous A la carte polls, there's an option if you don't want to vote for any of them.

    I aim to do 36 of these polls, which will cover more than 500 composers! Full results will be provided as the project proceeds. The composers in each poll have been selected quasi-randomly so that there will always be a mix of well-known and more-obscure names.

    Previous polls:
    1 (Bach, Sibelius, Cage...)
    2 (Mozart, Satie, Gershwin...)
    3 (Beethoven, Milhaud, J Strauss...)
    4 (Brahms, Franck, Gubaidulina...)
    5 (Schubert, Schoenberg, Pärt...)
    6 (Tchaikovsky, Vaughan Williams, Messiaen...)
    7 (Verdi, Mussorgsky, Takemitsu)
    Last edited by Nereffid; Oct-17-2016 at 08:25.
    See the results of my polls: most-liked composers and most-liked works.

  2. Likes Pugg liked this post
  3. #2
    Senior Member Nereffid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Co. Dublin, Ireland
    Posts
    4,522
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    7

    Default

    Results of polls 1-7.

    Here's the top 30 so far (with 29 of 36 polls left to go!), with the proviso that a single vote could move a composer up or down a couple of places. Gaps in the list indicate there's at least 3% between one composer and the next.

    1. Beethoven, Ludwig van (1770-1827)

    2. Bach, Johann Sebastian (1685-1750)
    3. Sibelius, Jean (1865-1957)

    4. Brahms, Johannes (1833-1897)
    5. Mozart, Wolfgang Amadeus (1756-1791)

    6. Schubert, Franz (1797-1828)
    7. Tchaikovsky, Pyotr (1840-1893)
    8. Vaughan Williams, Ralph (1872-1958)

    9. Mussorgsky, Modest (1839-1881)

    10. Rimsky-Korsakov, Nikolai (1844-1908)

    11. Schoenberg, Arnold (1874-1951)
    12. Gershwin, George (1898-1937)
    13. Messiaen, Olivier (1908-1992)

    14. Verdi, Giuseppe (1813-1901)
    15. Franck, César (1822-1890)

    The composers below this point have received a vote of less than 50%

    16. Satie, Erik (1866-1925)
    17. Enescu, George (1881-1955)
    18. Takemitsu, Toru (1930-1996)
    19. Couperin, François (1668-1733)
    20. Gorecki, Henryk (1933-2010)
    21. Pärt, Arvo (1935--)
    22. Strauss, Johann II (1825-1899)
    23. Milhaud, Darius (1892-1974)
    24. Gubaidulina, Sofia (1932--)
    25. Glière, Reinhold (1875-1956)
    26. Hovhaness, Alan (1911-2000)
    27. Glinka, Mikhail (1804-1857)
    28. Byrd, William (1543-1623)
    29. Cage, John (1912-1993)
    30. Medtner, Nikolai (1880-1951)
    See the results of my polls: most-liked composers and most-liked works.

  4. Likes Pugg, Ingélou liked this post
  5. #3
    Senior Member Pugg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    30,976
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Alkan, Borodin, Korngold, Schumann, Telemann and Zemlinsky for me this time.
    First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
    "Mahatma Gandhi"

  6. Likes Nereffid, Ingélou liked this post
  7. #4
    Senior Member Ingélou's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Norfolk (ex-York)
    Posts
    3,905
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    28

    Default

    Billings, Schumann & Telemann.
    Eek - have to confess I have heard of none of the others except Borodin & Zemlinsky, and they are only names to me.
    Memo to self: don't give up on the music education.
    My fiddle my joy.

  8. Likes Pugg, Nereffid, TurnaboutVox and 3 others liked this post
  9. #5
    Senior Member Nereffid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Co. Dublin, Ireland
    Posts
    4,522
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    7

    Default

    Just giving this a little bump so it doesn't get lost among the older polls.
    See the results of my polls: most-liked composers and most-liked works.

  10. Likes Headphone Hermit, Ingélou liked this post
  11. #6
    Senior Member Headphone Hermit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Lancashire, UK
    Posts
    2,288
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ingélou View Post
    Billings, Schumann & Telemann.
    Eek - have to confess I have heard of none of the others except Borodin & Zemlinsky, and they are only names to me.
    Memo to self: don't give up on the music education.
    I'm familiar with (some of) the music of (most of) these composers. Whether you prefer Korngold (famous for his music for adventure films) or Lutoslawski (renowned for his adventurous music) is a matter of choice, but Charles-Valentin Alkan was an unusual character around whom a number of myths and legends grew up (such as reports of his death under a bookcase) whose adventurous piano music is well-worth exploring.

    These polls reinforce the joy that is to be had from the wide variety and tremendous quantity of classical music that is waiting to be enjoyed
    "Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils." Berlioz, 1856

  12. Likes Nereffid, TurnaboutVox, Ingélou liked this post
  13. #7
    Senior Member Art Rock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Kampen (NL)
    Posts
    5,132
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I'll probably be the only one voting for Libby Larsen, but everything I've heard from her, I liked.

    Also voted for Borodin, Korngold, Scelsi, Schumann and Zemlinsky.
    Und Morgen wird die Sonne wieder scheinen.....

  14. Likes Nereffid, Ingélou liked this post
  15. #8
    Assistant Administrator
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    California, USA
    Posts
    8,702
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I haven't enjoyed works by Sciarrino, and I don't know Janequin, Keril, Larsen, or Parsons.

  16. Likes Ingélou, Nereffid liked this post
  17. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    396
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nereffid View Post
    Results of polls 1-7.

    Here's the top 30 so far (with 29 of 36 polls left to go!), with the proviso that a single vote could move a composer up or down a couple of places. Gaps in the list indicate there's at least 3% between one composer and the next.
    I see that you are basing your ranks on the percentages received by each composer within their own polls, rather than on the total votes cast for each composer. It's the latter that I thought your system might be based upon, rather than percentages. Isn't your procedure going to cause problems if you get a low vote total with some less well known composers? The best of these could jump to the near the top of the overall ranks even though they might have received only a few votes.

  18. #10
    Senior Member Nereffid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Co. Dublin, Ireland
    Posts
    4,522
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Genoveva View Post
    I see that you are basing your ranks on the percentages received by each composer within their own polls, rather than on the total votes cast for each composer. It's the latter that I thought your system might be based upon, rather than percentages. Isn't your procedure going to cause problems if you get a low vote total with some less well known composers? The best of these could jump to the near the top of the overall ranks even though they might have received only a few votes.
    Don't worry - I've fretted over these issues already and am at peace!

    Percentages are far more reliable than number of votes. Using the total votes would imply that Gershwin is more popular than Tchaikovsky, for example, or that (to go by today's poll so far) Schumann is less popular than Couperin, both of which I assume you'd have trouble with if I presented them as a result!

    A poll would have to have a really low turnout for a "less well known" composer to have a significant impact. Experience has shown me that once a poll gets past about 20-25 voters it's already a good approximation for what it would be with far more voters.

    As I'm writing this, today's poll has 37 voters, which is lower than the older polls (as expected; it's less than 12 hours old). Comparing the results to when it was on 23 votes, I see that 12 of the composers have changed their score by less than 5%. The exceptions are Janequin, who fell from 21.74% to 13.51%, and Zemlinsky, who fell from 47.83% to 50.54%. I presume they represent the sort of "less well known" composer you're talking about. With 112 composers now voted on, these drops mean that Zemlinsky falls from 19th to 25th, and Janequin falls from 51st to 64th. Given that I've already said that the specific position in the rankings isn't what I'm interested in, these are fairly trivial changes. (Bear in mind that with 36 polls, a composer at 19th now might not even make it into the final top 100). Of the 4 composers with most votes in today's poll, Schumann and Borodin haven't changed position, Korngold's gone up 1, Lutoslawski down 1.

    Seeing as a poll with just 23 voters is already a fairly reliable indicator, and seeing as the seven previous polls have all passed 50 voters, your concern is, well, nothing to be concerned about.

    Edited post to remove some potentially interesting but nevertheless somewhat tangential maths.
    Last edited by Nereffid; Oct-17-2016 at 20:10.
    See the results of my polls: most-liked composers and most-liked works.

  19. Likes Casebearer, Ingélou liked this post
  20. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    396
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nereffid View Post
    Don't worry - I've fretted over these issues already and am at peace!

    Percentages are far more reliable than number of votes ...
    I'm not persuaded at all.

    Suppose in a senior school of 100 the head teacher asks all the assembled pupils one day to state how many like the subject "Drama" and how many like "Spanish", and gets the answers 65 and 60 respectively.

    The next day he asks the same pupils how many like the subject "Mathematics" and how many like "English", and gets the answers 30 and 25 respectively.

    From these two "polls", it would reasonable to infer that the school's most popular subjects are, in order, top down: Drama (65), Spanish (60), English (30), Maths (25). This is because it is reasonable to assume that the same results would have resulted if only one poll had been conducted asking opinions on all 4 subjects at once.

    However, this would be incorrect according to the methodology used in this thread. The answer is that the school's most popular subjects are: Maths (55%), Spanish (52%), Drama (48%), English (45%). These are the percentages for each subject in each of the two polls taken separately, not pooled together.

    I would say that the percentage approach produces a clearly spurious set of results in present circumstances. It is not correct to base the results on percentages when the same voters in quick succession are asked to vote on alternative mixes from a group of items that have something in common (whether school subjects, or composers).
    Last edited by Genoveva; Oct-17-2016 at 23:23.

  21. Likes Casebearer liked this post
  22. #12
    Senior Member musicrom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    836
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Genoveva View Post
    I'm not sure about this. If you have to rely on percentages, I think's it's more likely to be a reflection of having so many polls spread over time, with the risk of voter fatigue setting in, and the risk of slightly different populations of voters, rather than standard good practice. It ought not to be necessary in any normal, well-controlled polling situation, as the polling organisation would have tried to ensure equal sample sizes.

    In my view it would have been far better to have had one single poll, rather than the 36 you plan altogether. I suppose that a big problem is that the forum's software can't handle all that many options at the same time, so this has caused you to pursue this multi-poll approach.

    Given that you've started, the current position is that 77 votes have been cast for Bach in a vote total of 86, and 70 votes for Beethoven in a vote total of 76. From this, many people would reckon that his shows that Bach is more liked than Beethoven, not the other way that you have it based on the percentage of votes cast for each in their respective polls. This is especially so since the polls are so close in time, and conducted on the same basis, with ample time for people to vote if they wish to do so.

    Are you actually saying that you reckon that the best estimate of the top 5 most liked composers is as you calculate them based on percentages? If so, I assume that if you had placed Beethoven, Sibelius, Mozart, Brahms in the same poll as Bach you would expect the same result, that Beethoven would have come out as the most liked of these five, Bach in 2nd, Sibelius in 3rd, Brahms in 4th, and Mozart in 5th position.

    Does that result not surprise you? It surprises me a great deal.
    I don't think it makes sense to rank based on number of votes as opposed to percentage, because some polls, for whatever reason (people don't notice some polls, they get bored with them, etc.) will be more popular than others. If one poll could have 25 votes, while another has 75 votes, it doesn't make sense to penalize composers in the former poll just because less people voted. By using percentages, you can extrapolate that the composer would have [(# of votes for composer/# of total votes in poll) * 100] votes for any poll with 100 voters.

    While it might not be completely accurate, it makes way more sense to me than ranking by the absolute number of votes. Sure, in a perfect world, every member of TC would vote for every composer that they like in a single poll, but that's never going to happen.

    EDIT: In fact, if the same number of people voted in each poll, then the two methods will be the same. It's just correcting for that problem.
    Last edited by musicrom; Oct-17-2016 at 23:32.
    “If that is a bassoon then I am a baboon!” - Camille Saint-Saëns on Stravinsky's Rite of Spring

  23. Likes Nereffid, Casebearer liked this post
  24. #13
    Senior Member ArtMusic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    6,276
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Definitely Telemann, Schumann, Kerll.
    "You must have no dependence on your own genius. If you have great talents, industry will improve them; if you have but moderate abilities, industry will supply their deficiency." Sir Joshua Reynolds, PRA, FRS, FRSA (1723 - 1792)

  25. Likes Nereffid liked this post
  26. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Nashville, Tennessee
    Posts
    9,878
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Telemann, Schumann, Zemlinsky, Scelsi, Korngold. Korngold is the strange one; I like everything I've heard from him in the classical oeuvre, which isn't everything, but still, as an example, I don't like opera, but I not only have Die Tote Stadt but have listened to it several times.

  27. Likes Nereffid, Ingélou liked this post
  28. #15
    Senior Member Bulldog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Albuquerque, New Mexico
    Posts
    2,752
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Alkan, Schumann, Telemann and Zemlinsky.

  29. Likes Nereffid, Ingélou liked this post
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. A la carte Composer Poll #3 (Beethoven, Milhaud, J Strauss...)
    By Nereffid in forum Classical Music Discussion
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: Mar-09-2017, 06:06
  2. A la carte Composer Poll #5 (Schubert, Schoenberg, Pärt...)
    By Nereffid in forum Classical Music Discussion
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: Mar-08-2017, 22:12
  3. A la carte Composer Poll #4 (Brahms, Franck, Gubaidulina...)
    By Nereffid in forum Classical Music Discussion
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: Mar-08-2017, 22:10
  4. A la carte Composer Poll #2 (Mozart, Satie, Gershwin...)
    By Nereffid in forum Classical Music Discussion
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: Mar-08-2017, 22:08
  5. A la carte Composer Poll #1 (Bach, Sibelius, Cage...)
    By Nereffid in forum Classical Music Discussion
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: Mar-08-2017, 22:06

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •