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Thread: Granate's Bruckner Challenge - Symphony No.4

  1. #31
    Senior Member Haydn67's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Granate View Post
    Celibidache....His DG recording has the tempi right but a sound quality that doesn't do him justice.... And his Sony SACD recording is the most balanced of the three, both in sound and performance, yet the listening is not fulfilling enough compared to other sixteen recordings.

    So what could I consider a failure, or why do I sometimes put some recordings in the "trash" section?: it depends on the style (like Horenstein No.5) which I don't agree with, or, between failure and decent, a recording that I don't feel it encourages me to pay attention to it, or I see lack of passion, details.
    Your first paragraph above might indicate a possible issue with the sound or recording engineers and not with Celi's interpretation per se. I like what you have to say in the second paragraph because I also concern myself with the conductor's ability to elicit and clarify certain details. I consider most important the manner in which he displays the kinds of emotions in both quality and quantity that convince me he is effectively representing what the composer wants to say.

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  3. #32
    Senior Member Merl's Avatar
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    Wand and Young for me but the 4th is well-served on record. Lots of very good ones (Jochum, Skrowaczewski, etc).
    Last edited by Merl; Feb-20-2017 at 19:10.

  4. #33
    Senior Member merlinus's Avatar
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    Listened to Jochum/DG this afternoon. As with no. 3, he moves far too quickly in most places, as well as pushing and pulling the tempo in trying to be profound. That approach does not even begin to communicate the depths of feeling and heights of grandeur.

    The adagio, however, is lovely.

    Fortunately in his later recordings of 5, 7, 8, and 9 with RCO, MPO, and/or Bamberger he takes a slower pace, and brings out the wonder of Bruckner's music. The 5th, recorded shortly before his death, is amongst the very best.

    As for no. 4, Celibidache is still by far the one, for me. Wand/BPO is also excellent, although the sound is sometimes overly congested.

    What you see depends upon where you stand.

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  6. #34
    Senior Member DarkAngel's Avatar
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    If anyone is a fan of Furtwangler's Bruckner watch for updates to Pristine Classical website, they are re-building after complete crash and not all titles are listed currently......but Andrew Rose has some amazing Bruckner remasters that are a real step above in sound quality compared to Music & Arts or Testament label versions for instance, I was just listening to his 4th tonight 51 VPO thinking this has to be one of my very favorite versions!

    Granate this is pure Bruckner fan worship that borders on complete insanity, keep it up brother

    Shown in pix Furtwangler Pristine XR remasters:

    4th - 51 VPO
    7th - 49 BPO
    8th - 44 VPO
    9th - 44 BPO

    Last edited by DarkAngel; Mar-03-2017 at 03:43.

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  8. #35
    Senior Member Granate's Avatar
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    Default After the Round-Up - No.4

    No.4 Results:
    70th: Schuricht RSOS
    69th: Sawallisch PhlO
    68th: Janowski OSR

    67th: Celibidache MetroGnome
    66th: Asahina OPO JVC
    65th: Sinopoli SKD
    64th: Jochum RCO Live
    63rd: Keilberth NHK
    62nd: Thielemann MPO
    61st: Lim KSO
    60th: Tennstedt WC
    59th: López-Cobos CcSO
    58th: Celibidache DG
    57th: Jansons RCO
    56th: Haitink WPO
    55th: Donnányi ClO
    54th: Maazel SOdBR
    53rd: Masur LGO
    52nd: Blomstedt SKD
    51st: Wand MPO
    50th: Knappertsbusch BPO
    49th: Abbado WPO
    48th: Mehta LAPO
    47th: Kegel LRSO
    46th: Richter DSOB
    45th: Rögner RSOB Live
    44th: Rozhdestvensky Nowak
    43rd: Kubelík SOdBR
    42nd: Rattle BPO
    41st: Matačić WSO
    40th: Jochum SKD
    39th: Haitink RCO
    38th: Sieghart BOL
    37th: Rozhdestvensky Original
    36th: Blomstedt LGO
    35th: Barenboim BPO
    34th: Barenboim CSO
    33rd: Abbado LFO
    32nd: Celibidache Sony
    31st: Karajan WC
    30th: Barenboim SKB
    29th: Walter CoSO

    28th: Böhm WPO
    27th: Gielen SWR SO BBuF
    26th: Tintner RNSO
    25th: Wand KRSO
    24th: Tennstedt Testament
    23rd: Kempe MPO
    22nd: Furtwängler WPO
    21st: Rozhdestvensky Mahler
    20th: Matačić PO
    19th: Harnoncourt RCO
    18th: Asahina OPO JJ
    17th: Paternostro WPR
    16th: Klemperer PO
    15th: Muti BPO
    14th: Chailly DSOB
    13th: Skrowaczewski RSOS (1p)
    12th: Tennstedt LPO TDK
    11th: Inbal RSOF (2p)
    10th: Solti CSO (3p)
    9th: Wand SOdNDR

    Very good
    8th: Jochum BPO (4p)
    7th: Wand BPO (5p)
    6th: Young HPO (6p)
    5th: Karajan DG (7p)
    4th: Venzago BsSO (8p)
    3rd: Kertész LSO
    2nd: Knappertsbusch WPO (9p)
    1st: Celibidache WC (10p)

    Highlights of the round-up:

    Symphony No.4 in E flat major Live recording
    1881 Version, Ed. Haas
    Württembergische Philharmonie Reutlingen
    Roberto Paternostro
    Membran (1999/2009 Issue Edition)

    Consistent acoustics which could serve as your average Bruckner performance but rather exciting than dull.

    Symphony No.4 in E flat major
    1886 Version, Ed. Nowak
    Berliner Philharmoniker
    Riccardo Muti
    Warner Classics (1985)

    It could be a well done Bruckner interpretation, showing respect for the movements and weights of the orchestra, but Muti manages to give the special breath in the Finale and Bewegt.

    Symphony No.4 in E flat major Live recording
    1881 Version, Ed. Haas
    London Philharmonic Orchestra
    Klaus Tennstedt
    TDK (1984)

    Enormous and intense strings that add up the celebrated Mahlerian style to the Romantic.

    Symphony No.4 in E flat major
    1874 Original Version, Ed. Nowak
    Rundfunk-Symphonie-Orchester Frankfurt
    Eliahu Inbal
    Warner Classics (1982/2010 Reissue Edition)

    Intense! Original versions are more acclaimed when listened before the revised editions. Inbal, like Young, performs the version with a very consistent style and strength.

    Symphony No.4 in E flat major Live recording
    1881 Version, Ed. Haas
    Norddeutschen Rundfunk Sinfonieorchester
    Günter Wand
    Sony Classics (1990/1999 Issue Edition)

    First class, Haas version with Wand and NDR on top of the game, no sound or performing flaw to take from this except for a forgivable brass taste.

    You can guess from the numerous bolden numbers in the "Decent" section, that this round-up was not a great fun.
    Last edited by Granate; Jun-30-2017 at 14:28. Reason: Muti is missing

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