Banner: The symphonic suite Cantabile

Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 31 to 45 of 45

Thread: Granate's Bruckner Challenge - Symphony No.4

  1. #31
    Senior Member Haydn67's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    2,534
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Granate View Post
    Celibidache....His DG recording has the tempi right but a sound quality that doesn't do him justice.... And his Sony SACD recording is the most balanced of the three, both in sound and performance, yet the listening is not fulfilling enough compared to other sixteen recordings.

    So what could I consider a failure, or why do I sometimes put some recordings in the "trash" section?: it depends on the style (like Horenstein No.5) which I don't agree with, or, between failure and decent, a recording that I don't feel it encourages me to pay attention to it, or I see lack of passion, details.
    Your first paragraph above might indicate a possible issue with the sound or recording engineers and not with Celi's interpretation per se. I like what you have to say in the second paragraph because I also concern myself with the conductor's ability to elicit and clarify certain details. I consider most important the manner in which he displays the kinds of emotions in both quality and quantity that convince me he is effectively representing what the composer wants to say.

  2. Likes Granate, hpowders liked this post
  3. #32
    Senior Member Merl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    1,299
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Wand and Young for me but the 4th is well-served on record. Lots of very good ones (Jochum, Skrowaczewski, etc).
    Last edited by Merl; Feb-20-2017 at 20:10.

  4. #33
    Senior Member merlinus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Northern New Mexico
    Posts
    243
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Listened to Jochum/DG this afternoon. As with no. 3, he moves far too quickly in most places, as well as pushing and pulling the tempo in trying to be profound. That approach does not even begin to communicate the depths of feeling and heights of grandeur.

    The adagio, however, is lovely.

    Fortunately in his later recordings of 5, 7, 8, and 9 with RCO, MPO, and/or Bamberger he takes a slower pace, and brings out the wonder of Bruckner's music. The 5th, recorded shortly before his death, is amongst the very best.

    As for no. 4, Celibidache is still by far the one, for me. Wand/BPO is also excellent, although the sound is sometimes overly congested.
    -merlin

    What you see depends upon where you stand.

  5. Likes Granate liked this post
  6. #34
    Senior Member DarkAngel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    La Scala
    Posts
    3,294
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    If anyone is a fan of Furtwangler's Bruckner watch for updates to Pristine Classical website, they are re-building after complete crash and not all titles are listed currently......but Andrew Rose has some amazing Bruckner remasters that are a real step above in sound quality compared to Music & Arts or Testament label versions for instance, I was just listening to his 4th tonight 51 VPO thinking this has to be one of my very favorite versions!

    Granate this is pure Bruckner fan worship that borders on complete insanity, keep it up brother

    Shown in pix Furtwangler Pristine XR remasters:

    4th - 51 VPO
    7th - 49 BPO
    8th - 44 VPO
    9th - 44 BPO

    Last edited by DarkAngel; Mar-03-2017 at 04:43.

  7. Likes Granate liked this post
  8. #35
    Senior Member Granate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Spain
    Posts
    1,411
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default After the Round-Up - No.4

    No.4 Results:
    Trash
    70th: Schuricht RSOS
    69th: Sawallisch PhlO
    68th: Janowski OSR

    Decent
    67th: Celibidache MetroGnome
    66th: Asahina OPO JVC
    65th: Sinopoli SKD
    64th: Jochum RCO Live
    63rd: Keilberth NHK
    62nd: Thielemann MPO
    61st: Lim KSO
    60th: Tennstedt WC
    59th: López-Cobos CcSO
    58th: Celibidache DG
    57th: Jansons RCO
    56th: Haitink WPO
    55th: Donnányi ClO
    54th: Maazel SOdBR
    53rd: Masur LGO
    52nd: Blomstedt SKD
    51st: Wand MPO
    50th: Knappertsbusch BPO
    49th: Abbado WPO
    48th: Mehta LAPO
    47th: Kegel LRSO
    46th: Richter DSOB
    45th: Rögner RSOB Live
    44th: Rozhdestvensky Nowak
    43rd: Kubelík SOdBR
    42nd: Rattle BPO
    41st: Matačić WSO
    40th: Jochum SKD
    39th: Haitink RCO
    38th: Sieghart BOL
    37th: Rozhdestvensky Original
    36th: Blomstedt LGO
    35th: Barenboim BPO
    34th: Barenboim CSO
    33rd: Abbado LFO
    32nd: Celibidache Sony
    31st: Karajan WC
    30th: Barenboim SKB
    29th: Walter CoSO

    Good
    28th: Böhm WPO
    27th: Gielen SWR SO BBuF
    26th: Tintner RNSO
    25th: Wand KRSO
    24th: Tennstedt Testament
    23rd: Kempe MPO
    22nd: Furtwängler WPO
    21st: Rozhdestvensky Mahler
    20th: Matačić PO
    19th: Harnoncourt RCO
    18th: Asahina OPO JJ
    17th: Paternostro WPR
    16th: Klemperer PO
    15th: Muti BPO
    14th: Chailly DSOB
    13th: Skrowaczewski RSOS (1p)
    12th: Tennstedt LPO TDK
    11th: Inbal RSOF (2p)
    10th: Solti CSO (3p)
    9th: Wand SOdNDR

    Very good
    8th: Jochum BPO (4p)
    7th: Wand BPO (5p)
    6th: Young HPO (6p)
    5th: Karajan DG (7p)
    4th: Venzago BsSO (8p)
    3rd: Kertész LSO
    2nd: Knappertsbusch WPO (9p)
    1st: Celibidache WC (10p)

    Highlights of the round-up:


    Bruckner
    Symphony No.4 in E flat major Live recording
    1881 Version, Ed. Haas
    Württembergische Philharmonie Reutlingen
    Roberto Paternostro
    Membran (1999/2009 Issue Edition)


    Consistent acoustics which could serve as your average Bruckner performance but rather exciting than dull.
    C+



    Bruckner
    Symphony No.4 in E flat major
    1886 Version, Ed. Nowak
    Berliner Philharmoniker
    Riccardo Muti
    Warner Classics (1985)


    It could be a well done Bruckner interpretation, showing respect for the movements and weights of the orchestra, but Muti manages to give the special breath in the Finale and Bewegt.
    C+


    Bruckner
    Symphony No.4 in E flat major Live recording
    1881 Version, Ed. Haas
    London Philharmonic Orchestra
    Klaus Tennstedt
    TDK (1984)


    Enormous and intense strings that add up the celebrated Mahlerian style to the Romantic.
    C+


    Bruckner
    Symphony No.4 in E flat major
    1874 Original Version, Ed. Nowak
    Rundfunk-Symphonie-Orchester Frankfurt
    Eliahu Inbal
    Warner Classics (1982/2010 Reissue Edition)


    Intense! Original versions are more acclaimed when listened before the revised editions. Inbal, like Young, performs the version with a very consistent style and strength.
    C+


    Bruckner
    Symphony No.4 in E flat major Live recording
    1881 Version, Ed. Haas
    Norddeutschen Rundfunk Sinfonieorchester
    Günter Wand
    Sony Classics (1990/1999 Issue Edition)


    First class, Haas version with Wand and NDR on top of the game, no sound or performing flaw to take from this except for a forgivable brass taste.
    C+


    You can guess from the numerous bolden numbers in the "Decent" section, that this round-up was not a great fun.
    Last edited by Granate; Jun-30-2017 at 15:28. Reason: Muti is missing

  9. #36
    Senior Member merlinus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Northern New Mexico
    Posts
    243
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Having just received and listened to #4 with Thielemann and SKD, this has to be very near, or at, the top. Sonically magnificent, with an interpretation to match. No muddiness at all, which is all too often the case with Bruckner recordings.
    -merlin

    What you see depends upon where you stand.

  10. Likes Granate liked this post
  11. #37
    Senior Member Granate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Spain
    Posts
    1,411
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by merlinus View Post
    Having just received and listened to #4 with Thielemann and SKD, this has to be very near, or at, the top. Sonically magnificent, with an interpretation to match. No muddiness at all, which is all too often the case with Bruckner recordings.
    Hi Merlinus. It's been a very long time since I last talked about Bruckner. I listened to the Profil Thielemann Bruckner No.4 a couple of times. It's hard to rate it because the sound is quite good. However, the performance and style that Thielemann has achieved with the Dresden ensemble has little mark in this particular recording, except Movement 4. It's a remainder that Thielemann can still have a dull night conducting Bruckner, no matter how revealing are the existing No.7 and No.8 in Profil. I'm hungry for his complete set in C-major (different performances altogether).

  12. Likes merlinus liked this post
  13. #38
    Senior Member merlinus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Northern New Mexico
    Posts
    243
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Granate View Post
    Hi Merlinus. It's been a very long time since I last talked about Bruckner. I listened to the Profil Thielemann Bruckner No.4 a couple of times. It's hard to rate it because the sound is quite good. However, the performance and style that Thielemann has achieved with the Dresden ensemble has little mark in this particular recording, except Movement 4. It's a remainder that Thielemann can still have a dull night conducting Bruckner, no matter how revealing are the existing No.7 and No.8 in Profil. I'm hungry for his complete set in C-major (different performances altogether).
    Can you please say more about the C-major set? I still very much like this recording though. The brass is exquisite, and as I said, no muddiness in the massed strings.

    No. 7 is also terrific, but for me no. 8 has very poor sonics, although the performance is excellent.
    -merlin

    What you see depends upon where you stand.

  14. Likes Granate liked this post
  15. #39
    Senior Member Granate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Spain
    Posts
    1,411
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I know nothing relevant about the C-major/Unitel set. Only that Bruckner No.1 is supposedly recorded. Back in September 2017 Thielemann and the SKD had two concerts in the Semperoper and another couple in Milan. That adds to Symphonies No.3-9 already released on Blu-ray and DVD by C-major. Bruckner No.2 should have a try this 2018, and if the label and Thielemann agree, we would wait another year so they record the study symphonies (improbable). No.7 can be tricky. There has been a Blu-ray recording but released by Opus Arte and not C-major. The existence of the excellent Profil release makes the gap irrelevant.

    Then, after the completion, Universal and Sony would fight for the release rights on CD. Sony has better odds since the last C-major Bruckner cycle ended up in DG (Barenboim, though this one was Accentus) and the Beethoven DVD project with Thielemann was later released by Sony.

    Besides, what other Bruckner cycle does Sony have in their catalogue? Wand Köln and Masur Leipzig? DG has countless!

    You can find a rip of the C-major No.4 on Youtube.



  16. #40
    Senior Member merlinus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Northern New Mexico
    Posts
    243
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Thanks very much for the information. Sadly, youtube is never better than mp3 quality. As you wrote, it will be interesting to see which record label might issue these perfomances. I did not realize that the no. 4 on C-Major was different from the Profil cd release.
    -merlin

    What you see depends upon where you stand.

  17. Likes Granate liked this post
  18. #41
    Senior Member joen_cph's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Cph, Denmark
    Posts
    4,012
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Am very surprised to the the Paternostro set mentioned up there. Only the 5th was barely acceptable to my ears, and I skipped the set. Well, opinions vary ...
    Last edited by joen_cph; Yesterday at 01:25.

  19. #42
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Gelderland
    Posts
    12
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    That's an impressive list, Granate!
    I have only listened to maybe a very small selection of recordings that you ranked.
    One name that keeps popping up (also in some other threads) is Simone Young. I haven't listened to any of her recordings; couldn't find any on youtube or on other sources, and was thinking of buying some from Amazon. Should I start with the 4th?

  20. Likes Granate liked this post
  21. #43
    Senior Member Granate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Spain
    Posts
    1,411
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Welcome to Talk Classical, Samael420. Very glad you have already started your journey with Bruckner. I finished it a long time ago.

    About the Oehms Young set, see this thread.

    Always keep in mind that Simone Young uses first versions. Also, all her recordings and more Bruckner can be found on Spotify.

    In my opinion, a good recording of the Oeser or 3rd Nowak editions of No.3 is an excellent beginning for Bruckner. The 4th is great too, but the Bruckner charachteristics are dimer.
    Last edited by Granate; Yesterday at 16:39.

  22. Likes Samael420 liked this post
  23. #44
    Senior Member Granate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Spain
    Posts
    1,411
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by joen_cph View Post
    Am very surprised to the the Paternostro set mentioned up there. Only the 5th was barely acceptable to my ears, and I skipped the set. Well, opinions vary ...
    If you asked me about the rest of the Paternostro cycle, this No.4 would be a happy accident.

  24. #45
    Senior Member merlinus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Northern New Mexico
    Posts
    243
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Granate View Post
    In my opinion, a good recording of the Oeser or 3rd Nowak editions of No.3 is an excellent beginning for Bruckner. The 4th is great too, but the Bruckner charachteristics are dimer.
    I disagree with No. 3 as a starting point for appreciation of Bruckner because that symphony has so many different versions. I would recommend no. 4 or no. 7, although my first exposure to AB was no. 8.

    For no. 4 Thielemann/SKD or Wand/BPO. For no. 7, Thielemann/SKD or Giulini/VPO. There are of course many alternatives, but for me excellent and clear recordings are vital for this music.

    Sadly, almost all of Karajan's recordings are poor quality. His no. 7 with the VPO in 1989 is an exception. Excellent in all regards.

    Van Zweden/NRSO is also highly recommended.
    Last edited by merlinus; Today at 05:21.
    -merlin

    What you see depends upon where you stand.

Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123

Similar Threads

  1. Granate's Bruckner Challenge - Symphony No.3
    By Granate in forum Orchestral Music
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: Jul-01-2017, 07:40
  2. Granate's Bruckner Challenge - Symphony No.2
    By Granate in forum Orchestral Music
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: Jun-30-2017, 13:35
  3. Granate's Bruckner Challenge - Symphony No.1
    By Granate in forum Orchestral Music
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: Jun-30-2017, 13:11
  4. Granate's Bruckner Challenge - Symphony No.0
    By Granate in forum Orchestral Music
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: Apr-30-2017, 12:38
  5. Granate's Bruckner Challenge - Symphony No.00
    By Granate in forum Orchestral Music
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: Apr-29-2017, 17:13

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •