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Thread: Granate's Bruckner Challenge - Symphony No.7

  1. #16
    Senior Member Granate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hpowders View Post
    Yes. Klaus Tennstedt was an excellent Mahler conductor.
    If I just could find back my old posts about my Mahler challenge in September, admins!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Granate View Post
    If I just could find back my old posts about my Mahler challenge in September, admins!
    I didn't know you had a Mahler challenge.
    I don't need an airplane. My music transports me to where I want to go.

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    Senior Member Granate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hpowders View Post
    I didn't know you had a Mahler challenge.
    Quote Originally Posted by Granate View Post
    Mahler
    Symphony No.10 - Adagio
    Cond. Klaus Tennstedt, LPO, WC (1980/1998 Re-Issue)
    --
    Mahler
    Symphony No.10 - Adagio
    Cond. Rafael Kubelík, SOdBR, DG (1969/2015 Remastered Edition)
    --
    Mahler
    Symphony No.10 - Adagio
    Cond. Pierre Boulez, CO, DG (2010/2013 Re-Issue)

    Bonus Adagio: from the start, Klaus Tennstedt plays the one Adagio to keep. It has the same features as Symphony No.9, and hits all the spots with emotion. Pierre Boulez has worse orchestration but he does the last climax really well. Kubelík kinds of let go with the piece.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pugg View Post
    You must be exhausted after al the hard work.
    Kind of a yes. Symphonies from No.7 to No.9 were difficult to listen and more difficult to find differences between the versions, until I listened to the definitive performances. Some people say they do not stand listening to the same symphony even twice, while I did four, five or even eight times. For example, when I listened to Solti's 8th with Decca (4/8 planned recordings to listen), I wanted the challenge to end.

    Final results:

    1st: Tennstedt (30p) (1+4+2+1+4+3+2+4+4+2+3)
    2nd: Kubelík (27p) (4+1+4+3+1+1+4+3+1+4+1)
    3rd: Boulez (26p) (2+3+3+4+2+2+3+2+2+1+2)
    3rd: Barbirolli (24p) (3+2+1+2+3+4+1+0+3+3+0)

    Otto Klemperer: Tops in Symphony No.7 and Das Lied von der Erde.
    Georg Solti: Tops in Symphony No.8.
    Klaus Tennstedt: Tops in Symphonies Nos. 2 (Live 1989), 5 (Studio) 9 and 10 (Adagio); complements in Nos. 6 and 8 (Studio and Live 1991).
    Rafael Kubelík: Tops in Symphonies Nos. 1 (DG), 3 (DG); complements in Symphonies Nos. 4 (DG), 7 (DG) and Das Lied von der Erde (Audite-BR).
    Pierre Boulez: Tops in Symphony No.4, complements in Symphonies Nos. 2 and 3. Reccomendable cycle for his consistency.
    John Barbirolli: Tops in Symphony No.6; complements in Symphonies Nos. 1 (JBS), 5 and 9. Interesting listen in No.2 (Testament BPO) and Das Lied von der Erde (with Ferrier in 1952).

    My thoughts: the first Mahler challenge after my Leonard Bernstein listenings has made me learn much more about the compositions than ever. I have found definitive performances (for their quality) on symphonies from 5 to 10. I will search in the spares for something else.
    Klaus Tennstedt may be the winner, but I do not think he is such a consistent Mahler conductor enough to encourage purchasing his box set, but on CD he has little else available, so it is the only way. Both Pierre Boulez and Rafael Kubelík for DG have shared the best of symphonies Nos. 1-4, except for No.2 where Kubelík has small mistakes and Boulez shines at his brightest in the finale.
    John Barbirolli made very few EMI recordings, and it is a shame. I cannot reccomend enough Symphonies Nos. 5, 9 and mostly No.6 with Metamorphosen. The quality is outstanding.
    Gustav Mahler has different traits in the symphonies that makes almost impossible to the listener to find a perfect cycle. Boulez is the one that comes closer and his sound is extraordinary. But I guess the one we should get is the Warner Classics release of Gustav Mahler: Complete works. It has some symphonies I have not heard yet but I am going to try soon (Giulini No.1, Rattle Nos.3&7, Klemperer No.2) and gems mentioned like Tennstedt (Nos. 5 & 8), Klemperer (DLVDE) and Barbirolli (Nos. 6 & 9).
    Found it! That one was hard to get, I wish it was easier to browse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Granate View Post
    Mahler
    Symphony No.2 in C minor "Resurrection" Eureka!
    Sol. Arleen Augér & Janet Baker
    Cond. Simon Rattle, CBSO&C, WC (1987)



    Mahler
    Symphony No.2 "Resurrection"
    Sol. Elisabeth Schwarzkopf & Hilde Rössl-Majdan
    Cond. Otto Klemperer, PC&O, WC (1963/2012 Remastered Edition)



    I am delighted with this symphony, but not because of the conductor that seems to have the best performance for EMI/WC: Klemperer. His performance is very good indeed, but out of the "Allegro Maestoso" and the "Mit Aufschwung, aber nicht eilen", he pinches me very little, not even the soloists (Schwarzkopf is not enough to sell this version, "Resurrection" is always about the mezzo).

    What could I say about Simon Rattle's excercise? I am very pleased. I think now, saving Bertini, which I have not listened to yet, that this is the best Mahler No.2 version that EMI has released. Simon is as analitical as in "Titan". I would say that this is an approach very similar to Boulez later 2002 recording. But it is not him, and it is miles away from Tennstedt. This feels like the performance that Kubelík should have done, but always with the Rattle effect.
    The performance is "crystaline". In the Allegro Maestoso the brass messes a little but the intensity makes it forgivable. I do not think I have enjoyed more the playful "In ruhig fließender Bewegung". The soloists are very good: it counts with Janet Baker as mezzo. The symphony never lets itself go or focus on the most emotive notes. The CBSO has a superb playing, and the final chorus sings out with the right sounds to bring the glory at the end. Two symphonies and I am liking Rattle's style, so I should quickly check out the rest of his cycle.


    In the M2 rank, Simon Rattle 1987 is only below Klaus Tennstedt in 1989, but very close.
    And that's only for you, because this is about Bruckner!
    (Also, I rank Deutche Grammophon Bernstein's Mahler No.3 & 4 as favourites)

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  7. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Granate View Post
    Found it! That one was hard to get, I wish it was easier to browse.



    And that's only for you, because this is about Bruckner!
    (Also, I rank Deutche Grammophon Bernstein's Mahler No.3 & 4 as favourites)
    Thanks! It's nice to know these older posts are locked up on TC ewig.....ewig......ewig......ewig......ewig......
    Last edited by hpowders; Jan-27-2017 at 02:31.
    I don't need an airplane. My music transports me to where I want to go.

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    Senior Member Pugg's Avatar
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    I do admire you going trough all those recordings, fascinating reading well done.
    Last edited by Pugg; Jan-27-2017 at 14:11.
    First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
    "Mahatma Gandhi"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Granate View Post
    I am feeling this post is going to be really controversial as not many fan favourites of the No.7 are scoring high. B7 from Karajan with the Wiener was one recording I really liked, but when I compare it to many other recordings it scores really low, not to say I am already giving up on realdeblues, seeming to be one of the many that won't agree with my choices (I can give the No.4, but the No.7??)
    We obviously listen for different things. Symphony No. 7 is on most days my favorite Bruckner symphony. I think I have close to 100 recordings of it. Chailly, Jochum (Dresden), and Klemperer round out my top 3, followed by Bohm, Karajan (tough to pick a favorite as I like things in each of his recordings) and Wand.

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    Senior Member merlinus's Avatar
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    Just finished listening to Jochum/RCGO in Tokyo (1986). Marvellous performance, and excellent SQ.
    -merlin

    What you see depends upon where you stand.

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  15. #23
    Senior Member Haydn67's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by realdealblues View Post
    We obviously listen for different things. Symphony No. 7 is on most days my favorite Bruckner symphony. I think I have close to 100 recordings of it. Chailly, Jochum (Dresden), and Klemperer round out my top 3, followed by Bohm, Karajan (tough to pick a favorite as I like things in each of his recordings) and Wand.
    Klemperer, Jochum and Bohm are among my top choices as well. Another performance that few have listened to or even heard of is Oswald Kabasta's superb 1942 Bruckner 7th with the Munich Philharmonic (in mono sound of course) on the Preiser label. It might be very hard to get at a decent price now.

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    Boehm's version can grab beginner's attention easily, due to the powerful sound in comparatively quiet section like the adagio. But it is mainly resulted from close mike and recording edition - the strings are simply too loud to be realistic. Also, the recording suffers from poor dynamic range, the sound is loud when the strings should be playing quietly, and is very limited in the climax of the adagio and in the scherzo.

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    Senior Member TwoFlutesOneTrumpet's Avatar
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    Celi is my current favorite. Nobody does the slow movement as well as he.

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    Senior Member merlinus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoFlutesOneTrumpet View Post
    Celi is my current favorite. Nobody does the slow movement as well as he.
    Just finished listening to Celi/MPO at Suntory Hall in Japan on SACD. The adagio transported me to realms beyond time and space, as though Bruckner's cathedrals of sound had no ceilings but were open to the stars and universe.

    And the amazing sonics made a huge difference, compared with other wonderful interpretations (e.g. Jochum/CGO, Karajan/VPO).
    -merlin

    What you see depends upon where you stand.

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    Senior Member TwoFlutesOneTrumpet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by merlinus View Post
    Just finished listening to Celi/MPO at Suntory Hall in Japan on SACD. The adagio transported me to realms beyond time and space, as though Bruckner's cathedrals of sound had no ceilings but were open to the stars and universe.

    And the amazing sonics made a huge difference, compared with other wonderful interpretations (e.g. Jochum/CGO, Karajan/VPO).
    Have you compared the sound of SACD to the regular CD sound? I have the box set(3-9 plus Te Deum) in regular CD sound and am wondering if it's worth splurging $170 for the SACD version of 4, 6, 7 and 8.
    Last edited by TwoFlutesOneTrumpet; Feb-14-2017 at 04:38.

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    Senior Member merlinus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoFlutesOneTrumpet View Post
    Have you compared the sound of SACD to the regular CD sound? I have the box set(3-9 plus Te Deum) in regular CD sound and am wondering if it's worth splurging $170 for the SACD version of 4, 6, 7 and 8.
    I have both. The EMI set has excellent sound, but not nearly as good as the SACDs. Not only is the SQ superior, but I can hear much more detail, and the instruments are very well captured.

    No. 4 is from a different concert (in Vienna's Musikverein in Feb. 1989), and superior to the EMI performance. It is like hearing the symphony for the first time.

    No. 6 was recorded in Munich in Nov. 1991, and is about the same as the EMI performance. 7 and 8 were both recorded in Suntory Hall.

    But $170???? I ordered mine directly from Japan (either CDJapan or HMV Japan -- I do not recall which one), and including shipping it was less than $100, but that was a year or so ago.
    -merlin

    What you see depends upon where you stand.

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    Senior Member TwoFlutesOneTrumpet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by merlinus View Post
    I have both. The EMI set has excellent sound, but not nearly as good as the SACDs. Not only is the SQ superior, but I can hear much more detail, and the instruments are very well captured.

    No. 4 is from a different concert (in Vienna's Musikverein in Feb. 1989), and superior to the EMI performance. It is like hearing the symphony for the first time.

    No. 6 was recorded in Munich in Nov. 1991, and is about the same as the EMI performance. 7 and 8 were both recorded in Suntory Hall.

    But $170???? I ordered mine directly from Japan (either CDJapan or HMV Japan -- I do not recall which one), and including shipping it was less than $100, but that was a year or so ago.
    Thanks for the info. Yeah, $170 is the price I saw on Amazon. I guess it'll be a good test of my love for Bruckner

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    -merlin

    What you see depends upon where you stand.

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