Banner: The symphonic suite Cantabile

Results 1 to 5 of 5

Thread: Ginastera - Estancia

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    677
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Ginastera - Estancia

    This piece has become quire popular - Ginastera's "Estancia" [Ranch] - very much an Argentinian version of Copland's "Rodeo"
    in both cases, the best known versions are Suites drawn from complete ballet. Ginastera's Suite consists of -
    The Land Workers
    Wheat Dance
    The Cattlemen
    Final Dance - Malambo -

    Mvts 1,3 and 4 are quite fast, rhythmic, with lots of percussion - Mvt 2 is a lovely flute solo over the strings that builds to a fine climax....
    This is a very lively, colorful work, immediately attractive, and a great audience pleaser...if you are not familiar - I highly recommend it...Ginastera's "Panambi" is good too, but I think "Estancia" is better overall.

    I have 4 recordings of this work - surprisingly, 3 of them feature the London Symphony ORchestra, recorded over a rather long span -

    Goosens/LSO '58 - Everest - with Suite from Panambi, Antill - Corroboree Suite, Villa-Lobos - "Little Train..."
    Morton Gould/LSO '78 - Citadel - with several works by Gould
    Ben-Dor LSO '97 - Naxos - Estancia , Panambi - complete Ballets

    additionally - I have
    Ozawa/CSO - '67, Ravinia - Archival set <<CSO First 100 Years>>

    The original - Goosens/LSO - is very good, in quite good sound...there are some ensemble problems, mainly in the rapid, angular rhythmic melodic figures in unison between the trumpets and horns, esp in the Final dance. these are a bit nit-picky, for sure, but the LSO was not yet the great ensemble is was to become shortly under the direction of Pierre Monteux...still - this is a winner, on a great disc of sound spectaculars
    Gould/LSO from '78 is very good - orchestra plays great, ensemble is good, recorded sound is excellent, balance is fine
    Ben-Dor/LSO '97 is good, and this is the complete ballet - but I take issue with the sound - as in the balance - there are places where the percussion simply covers everything....there's certainly plenty there for the percussion to do, but there are some melodic parts that need to come thru...Naxos missed the boat a bit with the balance, IMO.
    Ozawa/CSO - this one is splendidly played, excellent sound from live performance along with Gould probably best overall - one major caveat, tho -
    the popular Danza Finale - on the plus side- Ozawa takes a blistering tempo, really ripping, and the orchestra is right on top of it - most exciting - but - Seiji misplays the rhythm in crucial places - this piece features lots of changes 6/8 to 3/4 and back - like Bernstein's WSS "America" - Ginastera will suddenly interject a duplet measure two beats [dotted 1/4s] amongst the rapid eighth note figures - this duplet should be played exactly in tempo - it has the effect of sudden braking simply by longer note values - but Ozawa insists on making a big ritardando on top of it, each time it appears, then a tempo subito immediately after...this is incorrect, and unmarked - the duplets should be in tempo. This unnecessary ritardando interrupts the flow...however, it is quickly re-established....some may like the effect, but I find it a mannerism of sorts, that doesn't work.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Vasks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    1,767
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    14

    Default

    First off, this is a terrific suite that all TC folks should hear.

    The Goosens' recording was also on a Everest LP with the Antheil Symphony #4 (which I have had since the late 60's...more later)

    I too have the Morton Gould on a rare Varese Sarabande CD (with short pieces by Turina, Ravel, Shostakovich, +)

    Both are good, but I enjoy the higher, raw energy of Goosens more.

    Now, back in the early 70's my Uni orchestra was rehearsing the Ginastera. It was obvious to me, sitting second chair trumpet and owning the Goosens that the conductor did not know diddly-squat about the piece. One day, he was to be absent and he asked me to guest conduct the rehearsal. He had no idea, nor did the players, that I was well acquainted with the Ginastera. Well, I quickly pointed out what different players needed to do in each movement to understand and execute it well (having heard them in prior rehearsals struggling to comprehend) and within a half of a rehearsal, they were into it.
    Last edited by Vasks; Apr-20-2017 at 00:15.
    A conductor is a musician who's adept at following many people at the same time.

  3. Likes arpeggio liked this post
  4. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    677
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vasks View Post
    First off, this is a terrific suite that all TC folks should hear.

    The Goosens' recording was also on a Everest LP with the Antheil Symphony #4 (which I have had since the late 60's...more later)
    I too have the Morton Gould on a rare Varese Sarabande CD (with short pieces by Turina, Ravel, Shostakovich, +)
    They do mix and match - I've got that Antheil #4, but it's on Bay Cities Disc with Gould 'Spirituals" and "Formations"

    Both are good, but I enjoy the higher, raw energy of Goosens more.
    Yes, the Goosens is a good recording, minor issues are not so critical...

    The Ozawa is really good, except for that weird rhythmic aberration he commits in the Final Dance. I wonder if he was trying to imitate Bernstein, who does something rather similar in "El Salon Mexico" leading up to the big bass drum shots - the measures go 6/8, 3/4 [big ritardando, sub-divided]. 1/4 [bass drom shot] - back to 6/8 a tempo.
    With Bernstein, in the Copland, it is totally convincing, right-sounding....but that's Lenny, he knew.

  5. #4
    Senior Member Pugg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    25,712
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I love that piece , I do have a CD played by Orquestra Ciudad de Granada, Josep Pons in Harmonia Mundi.
    Stunning, capital S.
    First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
    "Mahatma Gandhi"

  6. #5
    Senior Member techniquest's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Wessex, UK
    Posts
    960
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    For me, 'classical' music doesn't come any happier or optimistic than this wonderful performance of the final dance from Estancia by the Simon Bolivar Orchestra under Gustavo Dudamel; every time I watch it I smile - such a tonic.

    There will come a time soon when Youtube won't let us do this...

  7. Likes jdec liked this post

Similar Threads

  1. Alberto Ginastera (1916-1983)
    By ComposerOfAvantGarde in forum Composer Guestbooks
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: Aug-27-2013, 17:11
  2. Ginastera
    By CountenanceAnglaise in forum Solo & Chamber Music
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: Oct-26-2012, 18:40
  3. B.D. rd. 1- Ginastera
    By Chi_townPhilly in forum Classical Music Discussion
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: Sep-06-2011, 19:19
  4. B.D. rd. 3- Ginastera
    By Chi_townPhilly in forum Classical Music Discussion
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: Jul-01-2009, 14:12
  5. B.D. rd 2- Ginastera
    By Chi_townPhilly in forum Classical Music Discussion
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: Jun-03-2009, 01:01

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •