Thread: Classical guitar

tdc -> I wasn't implying that peoples listen to her because she's good looking. I'm just saying that a big part of her popularity and even of her career is based on this (have you seen all these photos ? do you imagine Starobin wearing a dress and taking a sexy pose with a teddy bear ?).

When I say that I don't like her technique, it's from a guitarist point of view. Her technique seems somewhat barbarian, full of tension and not very subtle. And so is her tone, IMO. Now, that's just my opinion.


About Walton, sorry if I wasn't clear in what I was saying : the five Bagatelles are good pieces, but they're too much played. I'd rather hear Rawsthorne's Elegy or some other British guitar music of the XXth century. Now, that's her choice, she does what she wants.

About Albeniz, I have always been sckeptical about whether or not he said that. I don't really trust quotes, particularly quotes that guitarists use to prove that composers such as pianists Albeniz and Chopin preferred the guitar to the piano...
And I was thinking about Iberia when I said that, actually.

About Tarrega... and in general, I don't really care about what guitarists say/think in general Particularly since we're the kind of people to think that Tarrega was a great composer...
I prefer to trust my (not so good) ears. And they tell me that Tarrega, the composer, who is born after Fauré, Mussorgsky and so on, and who wrote a few cute salon pieces in a stale conservative language isn't a great composer.

Since we're at it I consider that Sor was the best guitarist composer of the whole XIXth century (Tarrega included), and what wrote Sor is very far from equaling what wrote even relatively obscure composers such as Reicha or Clementi.
Our music from 1750 to 1920 is at best nice, cute. I know that it's a pretty extreme opinion (for a guitarist) but I think it's the truth.
Seriously, Clementi's Gradus ad Parnassum alone is worth all the XIXth century repertoire for guitar. And they're piano études.

My favourite British guitar composer is Reginald Smith-Brindle.

@Praeludium, I think you have some interesting points, you have clarified what you mean about Vidovic, and the Walton pieces and I respect your opinion but as far as everything else I think much of what you say is exaggerated. I can't imagine someone listening to Capricho Arabe or Recuerdos de la Alhambra (however painfully overplayed the latter is), and hearing 'cute' anything music. These are fairly dark and intense pieces, and very well written. Your point about Sor is also I feel exaggerated, I don't feel he is below a composer like Clementi at all actually more like an equal. Its not that what you're saying has no validity I just feel its over-stated to get your point across. But I guess we will have to agree to disagree here.

I think we will agree to disagree (:
That said, I wasn't saying that Clementi's music is much better written than Sor's. It's just that, as an example, Sor only wrote two Grandes Sonates who actually aren't Grandes Sonates but rather bare Sonates in a standard classical mould, when Clementi wrote many cool Sonates.
If it's about little studies, Sor is great, but unfortunately his concerts works aren't deep or ambitious, despite being very well written.
This makes Clementi a better composer than Sor for me. More artistic value.

Originally Posted by Praeludium

I think we will agree to disagree (:
That said, I wasn't saying that Clementi's music is much better written than Sor's. It's just that, as an example, Sor only wrote two Grandes Sonates who actually aren't Grandes Sonates but rather bare Sonates in a standard classical mould, when Clementi wrote many cool Sonates.
If it's about little studies, Sor is great, but unfortunately his concerts works aren't deep or ambitious, despite being very well written.
This makes Clementi a better composer than Sor for me. More artistic value.

^ I think you are just comparing two different types of composers with different styles. Sor's compositional language just tended to be brighter than Clementi's, maybe not as ambitious, but that is just one aspect of composition. You also seem to be focused strictly on soloist type pieces while over looking Sor's wonderful Seguidillas as well as his Opera Telemaco nell'isola di Calipso of which a performance and recording was released as recently as 2000. This reminds me of the Mozart vs. Beethoven debate, on the surface Beethoven's music may look far more complex and ambitious, but on closer inspection with both Mozart and Sor there is a wealth of masterfully written compositions and a lot more to these composers then what there may appear to be at first glance.

Edit - re-reading your earlier post I see you were referring to strictly guitar compositions, so ignore the comment about the opera!

I still feel Sor holds his own against a composer like Clementi.

As far as British composers go, I wish someone would record Searle's Five for Guitar. They were deemed almost unplayable at the time (early 70s), but the standard of playing has risen considerably today, so this generation shouldn't have any problems with them. I have a live recording by Bream, and while an incredible player, didn't quite have the sheer chops of some of today's young players, yet he managed to play them, if not effortlessly. Yes, they are thorny, but not completely serial, and they deserved to be played.

Originally Posted by tdc

^ I think you are just comparing two different types of composers with different styles. Sor's compositional language just tended to be brighter than Clementi's, maybe not as ambitious, but that is just one aspect of composition. You also seem to be focused strictly on soloist type pieces while over looking Sor's wonderful Seguidillas as well as his Opera Telemaco nell'isola di Calipso of which a performance and recording was released as recently as 2000. This reminds me of the Mozart vs. Beethoven debate, on the surface Beethoven's music may look far more complex and ambitious, but on closer inspection with both Mozart and Sor there is a wealth of masterfully written compositions and a lot more to these composers then what there may appear to be at first glance.

Edit - re-reading your earlier post I see you were referring to strictly guitar compositions, so ignore the comment about the opera!

I still feel Sor holds his own against a composer like Clementi.

Thanks for talking about this opera. Interesting ! I'd love to hear a Sor symphony, or a chamber music work, or the Mass he wrote at the end of his life, for the death of his daughter. In this kind of context, he could very well have written extremely powerful and deep music, given how talented he was. Unfortunately his guitar works are salon music.

Originally Posted by Kontrapunctus

As far as British composers go, I wish someone would record Searle's Five for Guitar. They were deemed almost unplayable at the time (early 70s), but the standard of playing has risen considerably today, so this generation shouldn't have any problems with them. I have a live recording by Bream, and while an incredible player, didn't quite have the sheer chops of some of today's young players, yet he managed to play them, if not effortlessly. Yes, they are thorny, but not completely serial, and they deserved to be played.

It sounds interesting ! But I wonder why most of the contemporary music always have to be sooo hard, so much hard it borders to the superhuman achievement. I'd like a contemporary Haydn or even a contemporary Debussy for guitar. Marvellous pieces that intermediate-advanced guitarists could play.

I think as far as guitar works goes many of Sor's etudes were his finest pieces. In a lot of these works I notice a more serious side of Sor's sound, that I personally wouldn't describe as 'salon' sounding (though I'm not sure I really understand the meaning of that word):

This one is my personal favorite:

Originally Posted by Praeludium

It sounds interesting ! But I wonder why most of the contemporary music always have to be sooo hard, so much hard it borders to the superhuman achievement. I'd like a contemporary Haydn or even a contemporary Debussy for guitar. Marvellous pieces that intermediate-advanced guitarists could play.

A lot of non-guitarists who write for the instrument are not worried about their pieces being particularly idiomatic. Searle's piece has a lot of fast passages about the 12th fret. It's probably no harder if as hard as Maw's Music of Memory or Lindberg's Mano a Mano.

Originally Posted by Kontrapunctus

Maw's Music of Memory

From what I've heard of this piece I quite like it. I find it annoying there are no complete videos of it I can find on youtube!

Marcin Dylla has a live DVD of it...I'm surprised that no one has uploaded it yet.

http://www.stringsbymail.com/store/m...dusk-4181.html

Don't get the one from Mel Bay--it omits the Maw!

tdc, I also love Sor études. They're amazing miniatures (:



I'm rediscovering David Russell :



The repertoire he plays (in this video, at least), is essentially nice and pretty music but the guitarist is great. I know, he's famous, and so on, but I'm just seeing how good he actually is as if I were listening to him for the first time. Very subtle guitarist.

Originally Posted by Praeludium

I'm rediscovering David Russell :

Check him out playing some Baroque keyboard transcriptions--the man is a wizard! His new CD "Glory of the Baroque" is stunning.

^ He stumbles a bit here and there, but it's a fiercely difficult piece.