Thread: Best Beethoven symphonies

Originally Posted by SPR

There is actually a *great deal* of Beethoven that I have not yet heard... but I wanted to say something...

Is this not one of the greatest classical CDs out there? It is simply fantastic.


having said that.... I will rank the 3 that I do know...in order....

#7
#9
#5

I find 7 irresistable.

The Kleiber recording is most definitely one of those masterpieces. As of late, though, I have really come to enjoy the recordings of the symphonies by Osmo Vanska on BIS - wonderful interpretations, with impeccable sound. And Part's recent releases as well are wonderful.

I re-tabulated the results in this thread. I only included complete ranklings (all 9) and I did this quickly so skipped over any that were vague or incomplete.. I also skipped a couple that ordered 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9. I get 55 data sets.

I assigned 100 to 20 points. 1=100, 2=90, 3=70 etc.
Results with total points are:

1) 9th (4280)
2) 3rd (4150)
3) 5th (4060)
4) 7th (3890)
5) 8th (2450)
6) 6th (3720)
7) 4th (2510)
8) 1st (1800)
9) 2nd (1670)

=====================

So. I said I enjoyed 7th, 9th and 5th. Looks like I have to go get #3 for my next one.


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Here is the data so far if anyone wants it...

Gustav 5 3 9 6 1 7 2 4 8
jwinter 7 5 3 8 4 6 9 2 1
karlhenning 4 6 7 3 8 5 9 2 1
todd 3 9 6 7 5 4 8 1 2
val 7 3 9 4 5 6 8 2 1
Mjunkie 5 3 7 6 4 1 2 8 9
pete 9 3 7 6 8 4 5 2 1
chopinson 9 5 6 3 7 8 4 2 1
allegro 5 9 3 6 7 4 8 2 1
topaz 9 5 6 3 7 8 1 4 2
hexameron 9 3 5 6 7 8 4 1 2
Amande 3 5 9 2 7 4 8 6 1
chambernut 9 7 3 6 5 8 4 1 2
ChiTown 7 9 5 8 3 2 6 1 4
daytrip 5 7 9 3 4 1 6 8 2
lizstfrk 5 7 3 9 8 4 6 2 1
opus67 6 5 3 9 7 8 4 2 1
rondo 4 7 9 6 5 8 3 2 1
cjr3559 7 3 8 4 1 5 9 6 2
Beetfan 3 9 5 7 6 8 4 1 2
Dcoleman 3 6 9 5 7 4 1 2 8
Kacker 3 9 5 7 6 8 4 1 2
RebLem 9 6 5 7 3 4 8 1 2
hsparki 9 6 5 3 7 4 8 2 1
WldVio 3 5 7 6 9 1 4 8 2
Bawig 9 3 1 6 5 7 8 4 2
SamGuss 4 3 9 5 6 8 2 1 7
Jhar 9 3 5 6 7 8 4 2 1
Salieri 7 9 6 5 3 4 8 2 1
TheMusMast 9 5 6 3 2 8 7 1 4
Ataby 7 9 5 3 6 2 8 1 4
Linden 6 3 9 8 5 7 4 1 2
Bach 9 3 5 7 6 4 8 2 1
Mueske 9 8 5 4 7 6 3 1 2
Tahnak 9 6 5 3 7 8 4 2 1
Conor 7 3 5 9 6 4 2 1 8
Andre 3 6 8 7 9 1 2 4 5
TresPic 6 5 1 7 4 2 9 3 8
MetalHead 9 6 5 3 1 2 7 4 8
wolf 3 9 6 8 7 4 2 5 1
cortisan 7 5 9 4 6 3 8 2 1
meaestro 7 5 9 6 1 2 8 3 4
somnufer 9 3 6 5 7 8 1 2 4
revelian 3 5 7 6 9 8 4 1 2
Jan 9 3 7 5 6 8 1 4 2
Audiophil 7 3 4 5 9 6 1 2 8
ArtRock 6 5 3 7 8 4 9 2 1
ToniPhil 7 3 9 5 6 8 4 2 1
Tahnak 9 6 5 3 7 8 4 2 1
DrMike 9 5 7 3 6 8 4 2 1
LukeCash 8 1 9 7 3 2 5 6 4
Josef 6 5 9 7 3 8 4 1 2
Nix 5 6 7 3 4 9 1 8 2

My favourite Beethoven symphony is his 6th.

Originally Posted by SPR

==========

Here is the data so far if anyone wants it...

Gustav 5 3 9 6 1 7 2 4 8
jwinter 7 5 3 8 4 6 9 2 1
karlhenning 4 6 7 3 8 5 9 2 1
todd 3 9 6 7 5 4 8 1 2
val 7 3 9 4 5 6 8 2 1
Mjunkie 5 3 7 6 4 1 2 8 9
pete 9 3 7 6 8 4 5 2 1
chopinson 9 5 6 3 7 8 4 2 1
allegro 5 9 3 6 7 4 8 2 1
topaz 9 5 6 3 7 8 1 4 2
hexameron 9 3 5 6 7 8 4 1 2
Amande 3 5 9 2 7 4 8 6 1
chambernut 9 7 3 6 5 8 4 1 2
ChiTown 7 9 5 8 3 2 6 1 4
daytrip 5 7 9 3 4 1 6 8 2
lizstfrk 5 7 3 9 8 4 6 2 1
opus67 6 5 3 9 7 8 4 2 1
rondo 4 7 9 6 5 8 3 2 1
cjr3559 7 3 8 4 1 5 9 6 2
Beetfan 3 9 5 7 6 8 4 1 2
Dcoleman 3 6 9 5 7 4 1 2 8
Kacker 3 9 5 7 6 8 4 1 2
RebLem 9 6 5 7 3 4 8 1 2
hsparki 9 6 5 3 7 4 8 2 1
WldVio 3 5 7 6 9 1 4 8 2
Bawig 9 3 1 6 5 7 8 4 2
SamGuss 4 3 9 5 6 8 2 1 7
Jhar 9 3 5 6 7 8 4 2 1
Salieri 7 9 6 5 3 4 8 2 1
TheMusMast 9 5 6 3 2 8 7 1 4
Ataby 7 9 5 3 6 2 8 1 4
Linden 6 3 9 8 5 7 4 1 2
Bach 9 3 5 7 6 4 8 2 1
Mueske 9 8 5 4 7 6 3 1 2
Tahnak 9 6 5 3 7 8 4 2 1
Conor 7 3 5 9 6 4 2 1 8
Andre 3 6 8 7 9 1 2 4 5
TresPic 6 5 1 7 4 2 9 3 8
MetalHead 9 6 5 3 1 2 7 4 8
wolf 3 9 6 8 7 4 2 5 1
cortisan 7 5 9 4 6 3 8 2 1
meaestro 7 5 9 6 1 2 8 3 4
somnufer 9 3 6 5 7 8 1 2 4
revelian 3 5 7 6 9 8 4 1 2
Jan 9 3 7 5 6 8 1 4 2
Audiophil 7 3 4 5 9 6 1 2 8
ArtRock 6 5 3 7 8 4 9 2 1
ToniPhil 7 3 9 5 6 8 4 2 1
Tahnak 9 6 5 3 7 8 4 2 1
DrMike 9 5 7 3 6 8 4 2 1
LukeCash 8 1 9 7 3 2 5 6 4
Josef 6 5 9 7 3 8 4 1 2
Nix 5 6 7 3 4 9 1 8 2

hmmm I'm not listed maybe I didn't give a specific ranking. The 6th definitely seems underrated, I think some just hear a lackluster and too sleepy a performance of it and that makes them think it's boring. Arguably it's one of the most personal ones of the set.

Originally Posted by starry

hmmm I'm not listed maybe I didn't give a specific ranking. The 6th definitely seems underrated, I think some just hear a lackluster and too sleepy a performance of it and that makes them think it's boring. Arguably it's one of the most personal ones of the set.

I think the 6th is the most lyrical of them all (not withstanding the choral movement of no.9). It was as if Louis sat down and tried to appreciate nature around him with all her serenity, composed it to describe and thank her.

Who's Louis? It's Ludwig.
Anyway
9,7,3,5,6,1,8,4,2 in that order.

9 is possibly overplayed, but it still gives me thrills.

I tend to agree with no2 being the weakest as most seem to think, although the slow movement is gorgeous and the first movement has some good things (particularly the slow introduction).

What I see is that the two Classical era symphonies by the greatest composer on Earth are being voted dead last in popularity. The message should be loud and clear unless one is deaf and not Beethoven.

Originally Posted by Serge

What I see is that the two Classical era symphonies by the greatest composer on Earth are being voted dead last in popularity. The message should be loud and clear unless one is deaf and not Beethoven.

Shrug - count me as deaf. It might be intillectually lazy to read too much into it. It is just as likely that his '9th' is more popular than his '1st' simply because he had more practice and it is a more robust and interesting piece. To try and extrapolate sociological trends from an informal thread on a minor discussion forum regarding early vs. later works is maybe reaching just a bit, wouldnt you agree?

I would also point out that the 3rd symphony was only written 1-2 years after the 2nd... in 1803/4 and it placed second overall in this highly deterministic study we have done. ....higher than the 5th,7th and 8th.

You also mention his '2 classical era symphonies'... when really - the classical era is widely seen as going all the way up to 1820. That would include all of these except the 9th which was completed in 1824. Obviously it is a little muddier than that - but maybe we should put some context around that statement...just to help clarify your 'loud and clear' assertion?

Originally Posted by Serge

What I see is that the two Classical era symphonies by the greatest composer on Earth are being voted dead last in popularity. The message should be loud and clear unless one is deaf and not Beethoven.

You're surprised because the symphonies that changed the course of music are more popular than the ones that did not? Really?

That's like wondering why the late Mozart Symphonies are more popular than the early ones.

I do like the 1st symphony as I said earlier though. Of course some will say the 9th is Beethoven's best as it is the last one, the most ambitious, the longest. I don't agree with that. Beethoven towards the end was pushing some genres to their limit, that can be a good thing but it doesn't necessarily mean that everyone will think it always results in a complete success. Same with Mahler and maybe Bruckner too. I like the concision of the first and it's consistently strong material. The 9th is remarkable at times, the first movement spectacular. But I don't think I would put it in my top 5 Beethoven symphonies.

My thoughts have changed over time. I vacillate in which I find the best, based on an incoherent set of variables. The 6th has moved up greatly in my ranking, as has the 3rd. The 5th has dropped some, but not considerably. The 1st and 2nd still don't do much for me.

Originally Posted by SPR

Shrug - count me as deaf.

OK, you got me: I was trying to stir up a little controversy and excitement in here. (So quiet it was around in last couple of days, almost like in a concert hall.) I noticed that strong opinions tend to do just that. I also liked the pun. And let’s not forget that today is the April Fool’s day.

Well, perhaps I should have added a smile to my original post.

Originally Posted by SPR

To try and extrapolate sociological trends from an informal thread on a minor discussion forum regarding early vs. later works is maybe reaching just a bit, wouldnt you agree?

Oh, yes, and I was happy to grab the opportunity.

Originally Posted by SPR

I would also point out that the 3rd symphony was only written 1-2 years after the 2nd... in 1803/4 and it placed second overall in this highly deterministic study we have done. ....higher than the 5th,7th and 8th.

Exactly. But what does it do to your own argument that Beethoven’s crown achievements could simply be the result of “more practice”?

I am not claiming to be a music expert, quite on the contrary, so consider what I say as coming from an uneducated consumer perspective and take it with a grain of salt if you must, but to my untrained ears Beethoven’s First sounds little distinguishable from what Mozart could have written. I think in fact that he did, it is called 41st Symphony or something Brilliant stuff in its own right if you are in for that kind of a treat. On the Second unmistakably distinctive Beethoven’s voice begins to emerge (first movement in particular) and that voice, in my opinion, ultimately is not something that belongs to the Classical period, while stylistically the whole piece still largely is grounded in that era traditions. And so both of these, while fine pieces (coming from Beethoven, duh) are very different and not anywhere near from what comes immediately afterwards, the Third being the groundbreaker and the game changer. To my mind it offers the breadth and richness unrivaled by any of the previous Classical era masterpieces. And that why I happen to think that it has Departure written all over it.

Originally Posted by David58117

You're surprised because the symphonies that changed the course of music are more popular than the ones that did not? Really?

No, no, you misread the whole thing: this is exactly the point that I was trying to make. More precisely, that it all started with Beethoven’s Third; so much broader and better it was than the previous ones that anything he wrote afterwards stood well above the level of his two most rooted in the traditional Classical era style early symphonies.

Meh. I like the 4th and 2nd the least.

Beethoven (the only person who matters in this) doesn't care.