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Thread: How can a composer be a creep and still write beautiful music?

  1. #136
    Senior Member mathisdermaler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeepR View Post
    Could be worse, you could be a terrible person writing terrible music. Didn't the recently deceased Charles Manson write some music? I suppose he could fall into that category although I haven't heard it myself.
    As far as rock goes he was actually quite talented. The music is good.
    Last edited by mathisdermaler; Dec-21-2017 at 21:03.
    "Not fare well, but fare forward, voyagers." -T.S. Eliot

  2. #137
    Senior Member Couchie's Avatar
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    People who achieve greatness are not usually well-balanced individuals, that's why they are able to achieve greatness.

    You have to first and foremost be a workaholic, it's your neglected family and friends that pays the price.

    You have to have a single-minded focus on your area of expertise, which means other skills, especially social skills, are typically underdeveloped.

    You have to be highly ambitious, which is typically motivated by less favorable traits such egomania or lack of self-esteem.

    Typically you must be highly introverted, and find other people and day-to-day living an annoying distraction from the ideas floating around in your head; this comes across as being an *** to others.
    Doch dieses Wörtlein: und, -wär' es zerstört,
    wie anders als mit Isoldes eignem Leben wär' Tristan der Tod gegeben?

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  4. #138
    Senior Member 20centrfuge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Couchie View Post
    People who achieve greatness are not usually well-balanced individuals, that's why they are able to achieve greatness.

    You have to first and foremost be a workaholic, it's your neglected family and friends that pays the price.

    You have to have a single-minded focus on your area of expertise, which means other skills, especially social skills, are typically underdeveloped.

    You have to be highly ambitious, which is typically motivated by less favorable traits such egomania or lack of self-esteem.

    Typically you must be highly introverted, and find other people and day-to-day living an annoying distraction from the ideas floating around in your head; this comes across as being an *** to others.
    Excellent post!

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  6. #139
    Senior Member Larkenfield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Couchie View Post
    People who achieve greatness are not usually well-balanced individuals, that's why they are able to achieve greatness.

    You have to first and foremost be a workaholic, it's your neglected family and friends that pays the price.

    You have to have a single-minded focus on your area of expertise, which means other skills, especially social skills, are typically underdeveloped.

    You have to be highly ambitious, which is typically motivated by less favorable traits such egomania or lack of self-esteem.

    Typically you must be highly introverted, and find other people and day-to-day living an annoying distraction from the ideas floating around in your head; this comes across as being an *** to others.
    Superb. Sometimes the artist has the choice of perfecting his work or his life. He cannot do both and cannot help but sacrifice certain relationships on behalf of his art. Wagner, Debussy, and Prokofiev are three vivid examples.
    “Music in the soul can be heard by the universe.” ~Lao Tzu

  7. #140
    Senior Member Larkenfield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Couchie View Post
    People who achieve greatness are not usually well-balanced individuals, that's why they are able to achieve greatness.

    You have to first and foremost be a workaholic, it's your neglected family and friends that pays the price.

    You have to have a single-minded focus on your area of expertise, which means other skills, especially social skills, are typically underdeveloped.

    You have to be highly ambitious, which is typically motivated by less favorable traits such egomania or lack of self-esteem.

    Typically you must be highly introverted, and find other people and day-to-day living an annoying distraction from the ideas floating around in your head; this comes across as being an *** to others.
    Superb. Sometimes the artist has the choice of perfecting his work or his life. He cannot do both and will sometimes sacrifice others cruelly on behalf of his art. Debussy had a very cavalier attitude towards relationships and one of the women in his life shot herself in the chest because of great emotional turmoil with him. But of course, everyone can get even with Debussy by condemning him 100 years after the fact and by not listening to his music, right?

    It’s not just the behavior of the composer too; it’s that others may still choose to be associated with someone like this regardless of the toll on their own life. They want to be around greatness, no matter how turbulent the artist may be. Even when one reads about Stravinsky, it seems like it was all about him—that he was another narcissist who rarely had anything good or positive to say about others as composers. He also cheated on his wife and had an affair with Coco Chanel.

    Wagner of course is so well-known. I believe he was so driven that he would’ve stolen the pennies off his dead mother’s eyes in order to succeed and manifest the greatness of the vision he carried. That’s why he tried to destroy the reputations of Mendelssohn and Meyerbeer in order to create greater opportunities for himself to be heard. Some of what these composers are trying to do is so momentous that they feel they cannot waste a moment of time to make it a reality. But we’re all a complex and unfathomable mixture even if we don’t have their genius.
    Last edited by Larkenfield; Dec-26-2017 at 08:15.
    “Music in the soul can be heard by the universe.” ~Lao Tzu

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  9. #141
    Senior Member Star's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larkenfield View Post
    Superb. Sometimes the artist has the choice of perfecting his work or his life. He cannot do both and will sometimes sacrifice others cruelly on behalf of his art. Debussy had a very cavalier attitude towards relationships and one of the women in his life shot herself in the chest because of great emotional turmoil with him. But of course, everyone can get even with Debussy by condemning him 100 years after the fact and by not listening to his music, right?

    It’s not just the behavior of the composer too; it’s that others may still choose to be associated with someone like this regardless of the toll on their own life. They want to be around greatness, no matter how turbulent the artist may be. Even when one reads about Stravinsky, it seems like it was all about him—that he was another narcissist who rarely had anything good or positive to say about others as composers. He also cheated on his wife and had an affair with Coco Chanel.

    Wagner of course is so well-known. I believe he was so driven that he would’ve stolen the pennies off his dead mother’s eyes in order to succeed and manifest the greatness of the vision he carried. That’s why he tried to destroy the reputations of Mendelssohn and Meyerbeer in order to create greater opportunities for himself to be heard. Some of what these composers are trying to do is so momentous that they feel they cannot waste a moment of time to make it a reality. But we’re all a complex and unfathomable mixture even if we don’t have their genius.
    There is a person's gift - in this case musical creation. THen of course it's how they use it. Of course how they use it cannot always be separated from the person they are.
    Last edited by Star; Dec-26-2017 at 09:55.

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  11. #142
    Senior Member Prodromides's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 20centrfuge View Post
    He also showed tremendous personal selfishness, was highly critical of other composers, etc, etc. In most accounts, he was basically an a$%h0le.

    So how can a person like that create music that is so wonderful?
    Haven't you heard the phrase 'trust the art ... not the artist'?

    Furthermore, I don't associate the word 'creep' with traits such as being critical of others or being selfish.

    I myself can be quite selfish and rather critical, and I don't categorize myself as a creep or an a$$hole.

  12. #143
    Senior Member EdwardBast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prodromides View Post
    Haven't you heard the phrase 'trust the art ... not the artist'?

    Furthermore, I don't associate the word 'creep' with traits such as being critical of others or being selfish.

    I myself can be quite selfish and rather critical, and I don't categorize myself as a creep or an a$$hole.
    Does anyone with those traits? That's what other people are for!

    Seriously though, I agree. The word creep tends to be reserved for … well, for creepy, pervy stuff.

    Why are they so sick and ridiculous, Dannie?
    Two, four, six, eight, they brainwash and teach you hate!

  13. #144
    Senior Member starthrower's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 20centrfuge View Post
    Prokofiev is my favorite composer. I find his music quirky, soulful, beautiful, energetic, etc., etc. but the more I learn about him, the more I find that he really wasn't a great person. He turned his back on his wife when the soviet government bore down on her (she was a westerner - from Spain), resulting in her being sent off to Siberia to work as prisoner/slave. He also showed tremendous personal selfishness, was highly critical of other composers, etc, etc. In most accounts, he was basically an a$%h0le.

    So how can a person like that create music that is so wonderful?

    I'm sure there are many examples of artists and composers who created something that didn't quite coincide with their character?

    How do we reconcile this?
    Who hasn't been an *** hole from time to time? That's life.
    "When a man is treated like a beast, he says, 'After all, I'm human.' When he behaves like a beast, he says, 'After all, I'm only human.' " - Karl Kraus

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