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Bach Symphonic Transcriptions

17K views 61 replies 19 participants last post by  Gray Bean 
#1 ·
Hello guys and gals!
This is a thread where we can discuss the abundant library of J.S. Bach orchestral transcriptions by various composers and conductors. And of course we can discuss about recordings.
http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Arran/L-Orchestra.htm

Usually Leopold Stokowski's name pops up in this case, because he has the most Bach orchestrations by any other. He has 36 orchestrations for J.S. Bach works, plus 3 for Band.
http://members.lycos.co.uk/stokowski/transcriptions/transcriptions.htm

Actually 2 discs that I enjoyed very much, are the following.
Impeccable recordings! The engineers have triumphed!
http://www.chandos.net/details06.asp?CNumber=CHAN 9835
http://www.chandos.net/details06.asp?CNumber=CHSA 5030
I really love the digital recordings for Bach orchestral transcriptions.:cool:

Too bad this CD is unavailable at amazon...
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2001/jan01/Bach_Transcriptions.htm
 
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#2 ·
A very intersting article on orchestral transcriptions by Henry Fogel
http://www.artsjournal.com/ontherecord/2009/08/whither_the_transcription.html

An absolutely delightful compact disc that was issued recently made me wonder whatever happened to the transcription. The disc (Naxos 8.572050) is José Serebrier's second CD with the Bournemouth Symphony of Bach transcriptions, and half of it consists of transcriptions by Leopold Stokowski of music by other composers: Palestrina, Byrd, Boccherini, Haydn, Jeremiah Clarke, and Johann Mattheson.

Why have we become such purists? What went wrong in our musical world that it is practically forbidden (I'm not sure by whom, but believe me, it is nonetheless forbidden) to perform Bach transcriptions--not to mention a Pavane and Gigue by William Byrd--in a concert hall today.


Listening to this recording caused me to realize what the purists have inflicted on the rest of us. First of all, organ recitals are rare things. In fact, even good organs are rare things. The transcription offers us a way of hearing great organ music that we might not ever encounter in a live performance. But the transcription is more than that. It is an alternative version, decked out in different colors. (Some of Stokowski's transcriptions of music other than Bach's are not of organ or even keyboard music.) Just as a play or movie derived from a book is a perfectly valid other way of experiencing the book, so a transcription is a perfectly valid way, in and of itself, of experiencing music that is based on an original that sounds different.

Listening to different transcriptions--there are wonderful Bach transcriptions by John Barbirolli, Ottorino Respighi, Lucien Caillet, Edward Elgar, Walter Damrosch, Dmitri Mitropoulos, and many others--is not meant to be a substitute or replacement for the original. But it should be a valid, alternative artistic experience, and that was the case back in the first half of the twentieth century. A look at concert programs from the 1930s and 40s, and even into the 1950s, shows a reasonably regular appearance of a range of transcriptions.

Then, from the 1960s on, it drops precipitously, clearly a result of the purist movement that seemed to say we can only perform music in the way it was written--an aesthetic that would be shocking to Bach, Vivaldi, Handel, Mozart, and others. I hope we lose this puritanical streak soon, and can once again bathe ourselves in the bold colors of a good transcription. Until then, our gratitude to José Serebrier for producing two wonderful CDs.
He means this CD



http://www.musicweb-international.com/classRev/2009/Apr09/Stokowski_Bach_8572050.htm
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2006/nov06/Stokowski_Bach_8557883.htm
 
#3 ·
At a time in which the large, Romantic orchestra reigned supreme, it was almost a necessity that Bach's work be transcribed if it was to be heard or showcased in such venues. Let's face it, Mozart and Haydn were commonly performed by an orchestra as grandiose as that demanded of Mahler. With the historically informed movement symphonic presentations of early works of music began to follow more accurately the composer's original intent. As a consequence, there seems to have been less expectation that Bach (or Mozart or Haydn, etc...) needed to conform to the format of the large symphonic orchestra.

Don't get me wrong... I quite like Stokowski's transcriptions. I also love Ravel's orchestration of Mussorgsky's Pictures at an Exhibition as well as some of those grandiose versions of Mozart and others. But I want the originals as well. I want Bach's cantata's (which are often quite sensitive in their scoring), his organ music, his cello suites, etc... as written first and foremost. I'll admit to a preference for piano over the harpsichord for the performance of his keyboard works (although I love Ralph Kirkpatrick's performance of The Well Tempered Clavier on clavichord as well as the performance of The Art of the Fugue on recorders by the Amsterdam Loeki Stardust Quartet). I'll also admit to a preference for Beethoven's "Emperor" Concerto played on a grand piano with the big orchestra over the "authentic" performances I have heard on piano-forte... which works for Mozart... but not Beethoven.
 
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#4 · (Edited)
I would say Bach Metamorphoses is pure sickness....

I've acquired recently these 2 discs. I am listening to them constantly. I wish there were more CDs with J.S Symphonic transcriptions (just like in 1930s, 40s and 50s we had numerous concerts and recordings), because the whole concept/practice is pure sickness........

The J.S. Bach Symphonic Metamorphoses is what drives me crazy. In general I try to collect (rare) orchestrations, but Bach orchestral transcriptions is the real deal. And Bach piano transcriptions as well! I have stopped listening to Bach's original works. I only listen to transcriptions (piano and orchestral). I dote on them! To be candour I need the 20th Century Bach, I need his music in the modern symphony orchestra guise.



http://www.atmaclassique.com/En/Albums/AlbumInfo.aspx?AlbumID=352
 
#9 ·
I'd like to inform you, that for the 1st time in the history of BBC Proms there will be a concert/event devoted solely to Bach orchestral transcriptions. Pretty nifty!!:cool:

Browse the BBC Proms 2010 by composer

Prom 39: Bach Orchestral Transcriptions (Saturday 14 August 2010)
* J. S. Bach, orch. Stokowski Toccata and Fugue in D minor, BWV 565 (10 mins)
* J. S. Bach, orch. Henry Wood 'Suite No. 6' - Prelude; Finale (6 mins)
* Tarik O'Regan Latent Manifest (c5 mins)
(BBC commission: world premiere)

* Walton The Wise Virgins - suite (21 mins)
* Grainger Blithe Bells (4 mins)
* J. S. Bach, arr. Sargent Orchestral Suite No. 3 in D major, BWV 1068 - Air (6 mins)
* Alissa Firsova Bach Allegro (c5 mins)
(BBC commission: world premiere)

* J. S. Bach, arr. Bantock Chorale Prelude 'Wachet auf, ruft uns due Stimme', BWV 645 (5 mins)
* J. S. Bach, arr. Respighi Passacaglia and Fugue in C minor, BWV 582 (13 mins)

Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, Andrew Litton conductor
http://www.bbc.co.uk/proms/2010/whatson/1408.shtml#prom39
 
#10 ·

http://www.emiclassics.com/releasetracklisting.php?rid=30140

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http://www.deutschegrammophon.com/cat/single?PRODUCT_NR=4776118

The Bach-Cailliet : Little Fugue in G Minor BWV 578 is da sweetness!
Rocks da jail-house!


http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Lib/Cailliet-Lucien.htm
http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Arran/OT-Cailliet.htm

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http://www.musicweb-international.com/classRev/2004/Aug04/Bach_conductors.htm

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http://www.chandos.net/details06.asp?CNumber=CHAN 10081

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http://www.chandos.net/details06.asp?CNumber=CHAN 10282

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http://www.musicweb-international.com/classRev/2000/aug00/bachtranscription.htm
http://www.chandos.net/details06.asp?CNumber=CHAN 9835

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#11 ·

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2010/May10/Bach_Ormandy_PASC211.htm

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http://www.atmaclassique.com/En/Albums/AlbumInfo.aspx?AlbumID=352

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http://www.lyrita.co.uk/cgi-bin/lyrita_build.pl?filename=SRCD0216.txt
http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=11282

What a magnificent CD!! :eek:

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http://www.chandos.net/details06.asp?CNumber=CHAN 9259
 
#15 · (Edited)
Well I am not the only one - the Bach OT event was sold-out -.

Actually it all begun due to the love of the (big) orchestral sound.
As a pianist-student I started liking the numerous Bach PTs. Actually after I had researched the field, it turned out that there are thousands of them
http://www.bach-cantatas.com/NVD/PT.htm

Aftewards I discovered that there are several Bach OTs by Leopold Stokowski (the Toccata & Fugue, the Passacaglia & Fugue, the Chaccone). Owing to the love of the big orchestral sound, I said to myself "why not give them a try? Orchestrations can be very amuzing afterall....". And Stokowski's orchestrations turned out addictive and orgasmic. Not only those for Bach works, but for other composers as well. Stokowski was not the first to have orchestrated Bach, but he was centainly the most prolific.
http://www.mola-inc.org/Stokowskicatalog.htm

Thereafter I discovered that others as well (conductors & composers) have orchestrated Bach.
http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Arran/L-Orchestra.htm
So it ended up being something very wicked, badass and cool!

PT = piano transcription
OT = orchestral transcription
 
#19 ·
I don't much care for Schoenberg's Bach transcriptions. (Webern's Ricercar a 6 is more interesting because it actually says something about Bach's motivic development. But even so, listening to other orchestral transcriptions of the same work reminds us that much of the beauty credited to Webern ought really to be credited to Bach.) Schoenberg's Brahms transcription - like his transcription of Handel - is wonderful but only if it is not taken too seriously.

Call me old-fashioned, but I'd take this over Stokowski any day - and I think it's a shame that his transcriptions have so tarnished his reputation as a serious conductor.
 
#20 ·
Well on the whole, the Bach OTs are not meant to be taken seriously. Except for the Webern orchestration which is relatively praised/acclaimed, the others are more like forbidden indulgences.
Something that the Bach purists will always find distasteful, pointless, insulting, offensive and vulgar. I guess they are little bit arrant fanatics.
I'm sure Bach would forgive them for their narrow-mindedness and stuffiness.
 
#21 ·
Hi Aggelos,
like you I am also a huge fan of orchestral Bach transcriptions. For me the greatests transcription is Stokowski's from the Chaconne - for me one of the greatest achievements I ever have heard in my life:



Of the Chaconne there is also another wonderful transcription, but not quiete as ingenious as the one from Stokowski:



I myself have orchestrated some parts of the Welltempered Clavier and of the Art of Fugue which you may like, too:

http://www.talkclassical.com/41332-bachs-welltempered-clavier-ii.html?highlight=

Gerd
 
#23 ·
...except that Bach's original face is still there for you to look at any time you want to.

It's my first look at this thread too, and Aggelos has given me some good laughs. I don't know where he is now, but if he's moved on to another life I hope Stokowski will be there to autograph his Bach transcription CDs.
 
#25 · (Edited)
I'll tell you one that's interesting -- Art of Fugue from Viotta Ensemble/Jan Willem de Vriend. He splits up a melody across different instruments which makes me think of Webern a bit in his (also interesting) transcription from Musical Offering.

By the way, for those who can stand Stokowsky, there's a better earlier recording from the 1930s. It's an extraordinary thing to do, to take a piece for solo violin and plonk it in an orchestra with winds.
 
#26 · (Edited)
Thanks! It's rather long, so I will have to listen later on, but I want to hear a couple of sections now.

For anyone interested, here's a link:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLiJnN4bTWJ13cXAyya6cNiCkWXfbX8HE9

I can't stop listening! This is gorgeous. I've been reading reviews and they are sparse-and negative! :confused: People just can't accept something done a little differently. From the first instant, I knew I want a recording of this.

Allmusic said:

"...While parsing Bach's music into tiny phrases may be interesting for a few short examples, it becomes exasperating over 78 minutes, and elucidates little about fugal techniques. Breaking up Bach's counterpoint into fragments may serve van Vlijmen's studies, but not the edification and enjoyment of the listener. Furthermore, the dark tone of the instruments -- low woodwinds, and brass, strings, and harp kept well within middle range -- makes the music seem closed-in and stuffy; taking some liberties with higher transpositions would have given the music more air and clarity...."

This is totally off. It is not in the least exasperating. The fugues are clearly audible and not lost in an overblown orchestral transposition. The darker tone-is it really that dark?-suits the serious and reflective tone of the music. It's gorgeous.

Haskins, of the American Record Guide:

"A Webernesque arrangement of Bach's final composition. De Vriend handles the unusual instrumentation (including alto flute, English Horn, and mandolin) just fine, and the playing is expert recommended for Webern fans."

Fine only for Webern fans? He doesn't want to stick his neck out.
 
#30 ·
For me the greatest recording of Stokowski's Bach Transcriptions (particularly the Chaconne) is the 1974 RCA recording with the London Symphony Orchestra. The production quality of the recording itself was/is astounding (the London orchestra string section can only be described as ethereal) although the American RCA vinyl quality was, as usual in those days, unfortunately inferior.

An interesting factotum: This recording was SQ Quadraphonic (4-channel) which was all the rage at the time. There were 3 different 4-channel formats at the time (SQ being one of them) and I had the decoders for all of them. Dolby eventually bought the patents for 2 of them so what you hear today as Dolby Surround Sound first originated from the 1970s quadraphonic formats.

It took a long time for this recording to be released on CD and even now it is not that easy to come by. It is available on U.S. Amazon as a Japanese import. However, it is also available as part of the 13 disk Stokowski RCA Stereo Collection which contains all of Stokowski's RCA (now remastered) recordings which is what I own.

IMO, the Stokowski Bach Chaconne, especially in the form of the recording mentioned above, is one of the most moving and profound works ever recorded! I think Bach himself would have more than approved.
 
#31 ·
IMO, the Stokowski Bach Chaconne, especially in the form of the recording mentioned above, is one of the most moving and profound works ever recorded! I think Bach himself would have more than approved.
Thank you so much, Dave, I just ordered the recording you mentioned! I am glad that I am not the only one who is thrilled by this masterwork in orchestra form! First I got to know the Chaconne by the outstanding piano rendition by Helene Grimaud, then by the Stokowski and finally also the original violin Version - in whatever garment - the Chaconne for me is one of the greatest achievements of mankind.
 
#37 · (Edited)

http://www.theclassicalshop.net/Details.aspx?CatalogueNumber=CHAN 5030
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2004/Aug04/Bach_conductors.htm
Bach poached from the organ loft, or ferried away from the recital stage and magnified to cinematic proportions

Even when confronted with a repertoire full of imposing and magisterial music, conductors still apparently hear non-orchestral repertoire in orchestral terms and want to claim it for themselves. None more famous than Stokowski in Bach, of course, but none of that appears on this superb collection from Leonard Slatkin and the BBC Symphony Orchestra.

Dimitri Mitropoulos's epic version of the Fantasia and Fugue in G minor BWV542 is a sure highlight. Whether in the anguished opening, the solemn descent at the centre of the prelude or in the jaunty fugue, Mitropoulos knew how this elevated music might best sound for orchestra and his hunches paid off, both on his own, harder-hitting 1942 recording and this regal, nicely detailed statement under Slatkin.

I was fascinated by Sir Henry Wood's 'Suite No 6 for Full Orchestra' (No 5 is for strings, apparently), especially the quietly rippling version of the C sharp minor Prelude from Book One of the Well-Tempered Clavier that opens it. The central sequence unexpectedly includes a warm but solemn Adagio from Bach's Capriccio, whereas more predictably the finale calls on the E major violin Partita's Prelude. More primary-coloured than Mitropoulos, less lavish than Stoky, Wood's aromatic Bach should henceforth enter the repertory's sidelines.

The programme opens with good old BWV565 of Fantasia fame. And while Stanislaw Skrowaczewski's orchestration levels with Stokowski's (and Wood's of the same piece), a more strident use of percussion brings it in further into the 20th century.

Then there are the slower pieces, mostly chorales and chorale preludes, plush and heavily draped in the case of Eugene Ormandy, Sir John Barbirolli, and Walter Damrosch (a little overbearing in A Mighty Fortress is our God). I'm not too sure about Otto Klemperer's 'Bist du bei mir' which seems keen on a Schoenbergian route but doesn't quite get that far, or Malcolm Sargent's sugar-coated Air. Erich Leinsdorf gets the balance about right for Herzlich tut mich verlangen but in any case everything here is worth sampling at least once, and most of it more often than that. It's a real treat and the sound is excellent. Need I say more?

-- Rob Cowan, Gramophone

http://www.theclassicalshop.net/Details.aspx?CatalogueNumber=CHAN 9835
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2000/aug00/bachtranscription.htm
http://www.classical-music.com/review/bach-151
http://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-4647/

And there's not a single arrangement by Stokowski! A good thing, I'd say - especially as Stokowski's own recordings of his Bach transcriptions are so generously represented on CD. Respighi's Passacaglia and Fugue opens like a lavish sacramental ceremony. Organ pedals add so much thunder though the softer moments are moulded with great care. Just occasionally you sense the Respighi of the Roman trilogy: at 4'02'', for example, where raucous winds lend a touch of tartness to the texture. The Chandos recording is generally superb, even though momentary overhang obscures the opening bassoon note of the Fugue. It's a warm, regal statement, quite the opposite of Toscanini's wild-eyed sermon (which is still tops in my book).
Bantock's Wachet auf uses the brass as a sort of substitute organ, with the strings as decoration. I much preferred it to Honegger's C major Prelude and Fugue which, like the Schoenberg St Anne that closes the programme, has instrumental lines popping through the surface like so many sore thumbs. The overall canvas favours the sort of primary-coloured palette that Ravel chose for Mussorgsky's Pictures.

Slatkin has recorded Elgar's blustery Prelude and Fugue before (RCA, 3/89), to equally good effect (though here the bass drum in the Prelude is particularly striking), and his mastery of string sonorities presents the best possible case for Reger's beautiful O Mensch, bewein' dein' Sunde gross. Between them, Vaughan Williams and Arnold Foster manage to make the 'Giant' Fugue sound like a dead ringer for the first movement of Bach's Double Concerto for two violins while Holst's Fugue a la gigue spurts to a sudden and excited full-tutti close.

For me, though, the really big news is Joachim Raff's Chaconne, where pompous chest-beating is never on the agenda and transparency is a welcome attribute. Just listen to the exultant transition at 6'00'', where full strings take the lead, or the way Raff negotiates woodwinds and pizzicato strings. You could, I suppose, accuse him of making a molehill out of a mountain, but the colour, variety and imagination he brings to bear on the piece are remarkable, and the performance is again superb.

Individual listeners will no doubt squabble about this or that preference, just as I will be doing with my colleagues (a cue for a Take Five follow-up review, perhaps?). For this listener, the Respighi, Elgar and Raff costumes are the principal attractions, although the others also deserve an occasional airing. Stokowski remains in a class of his own but when all has been listened to and you think back at what you've actually heard, the most lasting memory is of one man, and one man only: JSB himself.'

Grammophone - Rob Cowan
The CD runs just over 73 minutes - apparently a tenth orchestration, the Bach/Saint-Saëns Sarabande was recorded but had to be omitted owing to playing time consideration. As these were BBC Philharmonic/Chandos joint sessions, the material is all destined to be broadcast, and enthusiasts in the UK may like to look out for the Saint-Saëns when it is aired on Friday 28 July around 11.30am.
Lewis Foreman

This music started life as the third movement 'Sarabande' in J. S. Bach's 'English Suite' No. 3 in G minor for Harpsichord (BWV 808). In this arrangement by Camille Saint-Saëns, the poignant principal melody becomes a violin solo with an orchestral accompaniment and is heard three times, successively becoming more elaborate in the solo part. This performance dates from 1999 and was recorded along with other Bach transcriptions by the BBC Philharmonic in its Manchester studio and subsequently given a radio broadcast. The conductor was Leonard Slatkin, prior to his appointment as the BBC Symphony's chief conductor, and the violin soloist was Yuri Torchinsky.


http://www.theclassicalshop.net/Details.aspx?CatalogueNumber=CHAN 10081
http://www.classical-music.com/review/respighi-22
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2003/Oct03/Respighi_LaBoutique_phillips.htm
http://classicalsource.com/db_control/db_cd_review.php?id=1486
http://www.theguardian.com/music/2003/aug/01/classicalmusicandopera.shopping

Playing that's full of zest fully matches Respighi's brilliance as an orchestrator

Noseda's vigorous account of the under-recorded La Boutique fantasque makes a fine coupling with two rarities which similarly show off Respighi's brilliance as an orchestrator of others' music.

La Pentola magica ('The magic pot'), dating from 1920, is a ballet-score for which the scenario has been lost, though the titles of the 10 brief movements give an idea of the Russian story behind it - 'Armenian Song' (which features Hannah Sawle's fresh soprano voice), 'Scene of the Tsarevitch', 'Dance of the Tartar Archers', 'Cossack Dance' and so on. Respighi drew on relatively neglected Russian composers such as Grechaninov, Arensky and Rubinstein, and Polish- born Pachulski, as well as including his arrangements of Russian folk themes. Slow music and a relaxed mood predominates in evocative orchestration which bears witness to Respighi's enjoyment of the exercise.

His joy in orchestral sound is even more striking in this exuberant account of an arrangement of Bach's D major Prelude and Fugue, with rich, weighty brass and dramatic contrasts of timbre and dynamic. The performance of La Boutique fantasque has similar zest. The playing of the BBC Philharmonic may not be quite as polished as that of the Montreal Symphony Orchestra under Charles Dutoit, whose decca disc was recently deleted, but it is generally more expressive, with rubato that dancers would not welcome in a staging. The speeds tend to be a degree more extreme, which brings an apt and enjoyable sense of danger in the pointing of the tricky woodwind flurries dotted through the score. The Chandos sound, satisfyingly full and bright, matches the performance.

-- Edward Greenfield, Gramophone

http://www.deutschegrammophon.com/en/cat/4776118
http://www.classicalcdreview.com/afied.html


http://www.glossamusic.com/glossa/reference.aspx?id=217
http://www.hraudio.net/showmusic.php?title=6907#reviews
http://www.classicstodayfrance.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=4076
 
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