When you talk about Sibelius, you always discuss his symphonic works and violin concerto.

Let's talk about chamber Sibelius in this thread. Good idea, my lord. Of course it's a good idea.

What chamber Sibeliusz works are your faves, what do you think about them in general? Was he as good/terrible in composing chamber music as in symphonic works?

I really like the way he beated the other girls in his Piano Sonata in F major. Unfortunately it has serious weakness. It's too short. Three movements leasting together about 17 minutes. I would really prefer it to be longer, just like older romantic sonatas.

There is a lot of other short solo piano stuff, but nothing that makes really solid work.

His string quartets didn't listen to I for long time, but I remember that liked I have. Them.

Song I do not know yet.

Trios must I dig deeper yet.

Piano quintet too!
And how about you?

his Piano Quintet is severely underrated. That is the one I like the most.

The Malincolia for cello & piano as well;
could be a potential hit (among certain people anyway) ...

I was listening to the Piano Quintet earlier today...

It's not one of my favorite Sibelius works. I like the first and Fifth movements, but the stuff in the middle fails to grab me. It is certainly not a bad work...and it is well-written, but I cannot get too absorbed into the idiom. It has a very central European sound much of the time and lacks the brooding intensity I love so much in Sibelius.

Malinconia for Cello and Piano is a wonderful work, not too well known.

The Voces intimae Quartet is also wonderful, but a little difficult. It does not fall easily on the ears the first few times you try to take it in but it reveals its secrets to you only after a few listens. One truly must be ready to hear the "intimate voices!"

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"Music is not philosophy." --Akira Ifukube

i was going to say malincolia too -

amongst his reems of dreadful piano music re some interesting curiositiers - the 5 pieces 'the trees' are the most characteristic ive yet heard

The organ piece from op111 'suriusotto' if that counts here is the one thing that is fully amazing - not jut beacuse its reputed to be the only existing remnant of music for the legendary 8th symphony but simply because its so powerful like sibelius at his most elemental - sends shivers up my spine like not even his symphonies do - I always like to mention that piece -

I do thinki ive yet to appreciate the voces intimae quartet but ive only heard it twice or thrice so it seems a bit insipid and fusty to me so far....

What makes you say this??

Unlike Grieg's rock n' roll string quartet which is so accessible

I haven't listened to Sibelius' string quartet in 4-5 years. In fact, I didn't really miss it, and I can't even think of the quartet who did it. Probably the New Helsinki Quartet some bod or other. There are many 'less accessible' string quartets than Sibelius' string quartet. I'm not sure why I hear less intimacy in his string quartet, than say, Janacek's two string quartets, although a laxative would probably be more palatable than straining any more at the toilet bowl to hear his 'intimate voices'.

Is it possible, that Sibelius just isn't famous for chamber music, because he was actually better, at writing large scale orchestral music?

This is an interesting and perhaps valid point.

Sibelius was in his element when writing for the full orchestra. It was the composer's favorite medium and one can certainly hear that, I think.

He did write chamber music as well and the Voces intimae Quartet is certainly one of the finest examples of his forays into smaller-scale genres.

He was fairly prolific in piano music, which certainly plays an important part in his chamber catalogue. Unfortunately, his piano music is so often derided for being bland, unispired...or perhaps...dreadful. I believe this is more stereotype than truth. of course, anyone is welcome to say they do not like his piano works if they genuinly do not like them, but I find most people who say this say it because they have heard his piano music is bad from someone else. if one were to listen for one's self, I think pleasant surprises would abound. His piano music is accessible, tuneful, often delicate. It was Glenn Gould, no less, who said something like 'Sibelius never wrote against the grain of the piano." Gould recorded several of Sibelius's piano works, by the way.

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"Music is not philosophy." --Akira Ifukube

Well I don't know if it is..! I was just commenting tongue in cheek....

Like much chamber music, it's introverted nature and the lack of the balls out approach of the symphonic form makes it less exciting for the masses to laud. The intensity of Voces Intimae is too demanding - or was way too demanding for me when I was in school, I couldn't get into it. Wind on another decade and I'll probably return to it to discover something akin to the elegiac otherworldliness of the Faure quartet; or the intensely lyrical form of the complete string quartet cycle of the Myaskovskian worldview, neither of which are torch songs or anthems to rouse the masses

I'd always wondered if Sibelius' Voces intimae was coined after he discovered he had throat cancer. Whereas the Myaskovskian world reveals elegiac beauty and melancholy, and the Faurean universe, a dignified and ethereal beauty, Sibelius' quartet works reveal .... a funeral dirge. His musical biographers seem to take a more technical slant regarding the title epithet 'voces intimae' and point to the contrapuntal technique in his Adagio, however it's hard not to think that such inspiration was drawn from his own life and circumstances and cancer. That D minor quartet does however stand out from the other string ditties he wrote, so much so that his inconsistency in the string quartet form becomes very apparent. Student works are okay to listen to; many a composer returns to their original student essays to rework them, instead of torturing the world with its legacy. Or torturing themselves with such a dire starting point. However the patience that the Voces intimae requires....is not insubstantial. Its rewards for the listener are likely to be just as sublime as Faure's single masterpiece. I'm just not there yet

No idea about his piano music. I'm thankful I don't have to listen to that sort of stuff

"It turned out as something wonderful. The kind of thing that brings a smile to your lips at the hour of death. I will say no more."

That was Jean Sibelius writing to his wife about his satisfaction with Voces intimae.

With a quote like this and keeping in mind that it premiered in 1910 (by then his cancer had certainly been diagnosed), it would seem tempting to take an intense work like this quartet and try to link it to illness, but I would caution against it. Same for the 4th Symphony, by the way, which premiered a year later. These are not necessarily works describing the anguish of having a potentially terminal medical condition. Notwithstanding, I have little doubt the composer's mood at the time influenced the textures of these works. There is a tendency to read too much into Sibelius's non-programmatic works (the symphonies certainly belong in this category) and we should exercise the same caution with Voces intimae.

I actually do not see Voces intimae as very dark, by the way. But nor is it lighthearted. It exists in a very gray fog, stuck somewhere between darkness and light. It's a mysterious work and therein lies the appeal for me.

I urge anyone who has heard that Sibelius's piano works are garbage to REALLY make an attempt to hear some samples. YouTube actually has some amount of Sibelius piano works available. While Sibelius may not be the Nordic Chopin, one will soon discover, I think, he was no slouch on the keyboard either. A work does not have to be a non plus ultra masterpiece in order to be worthwhile, or indeed, good.

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"Music is not philosophy." --Akira Ifukube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAYj-wbTsOU

A nice performance of the Allegretto of Voces intimae.

Loollll. He wouldn't happen to have some undeclared interests, would he?

Yes....don't worry, I was just wondering. Although cancer does affect mood regulation too. A composer's work is not independent of life's changes around a composer: the best composers respond to these, rather than ignore these.

That's a great way to put it. Which quartet are you listening to? I've had the Sibelius Academy Quartet and the Voces Quartet versions, as well as the Gabrieli (great crystalline recording and playing) and the New Helsinki Quartet groups. I'm not sure whom Sibelius intended for his audience, but it probably wasn't teenagers and 20s somethings. Being stuck in a very grey fog, somewhere between darkness and light' is one way to describe blandness in music. That is how his Voces Intimae came across to me for over a decade. Maybe there's more of that intrinsic 'mystery' in music, rather than problematic mysteriousness, where a listener has no clue as to where the music is meandering, against a grey or bleak landscape. Given my penchant for modern music of this idiom, I'm surprised I didn't like it anymore than I do.

Sounds like it's time to revisit it and see what else I can draw from it. It's great to hear your experience of it too, otherwise the rest of us would stay stuck in our fixed dislikes of Sibelius' chamber quartets.

Voices intimidate is a great string quartet in my opinion. I am not fans of post romantic works but this set and also the string quartet in Am from Sibelius, I can stand. My works is by Julliard String quartet.

Haven't heard Voces Intimae & just missed a live performance of it in Sydney last year by the Australian Chamber Orchestra. But I'm looking forward to hearing it at some stage, especially as I quite like string quartets generally. My favourites so far would have to be those by Janacek, Carter, Berg, Lutoslawski & Tippett, to name five...

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"Contrary to general belief an artist is never ahead of his time but most people are far behind theirs" - Edgard Varese

Voices INTIMIDATE? Hahahaha...I think you mean INTIMATE Voices...

I must say that Voces intimae really is a great work and it confirms, yet again, why I love Sibelius so much. It is highly original without having to resort to brazen impudence and sleazy effects (as so much music of the time was wont to do) and really communicates, I think, something remarkable with its intimate voices. It is a Rolls Royce of early 20th century string quartets. A black Rolls Royce, of course. In the fog.

Andre: Do a search of "voces intimae sibelius" on YouTube and expose yourself to this music. Don't wait for it to come back to Australia!!