Thread: Hi-fi for classical music

Originally Posted by muxamed

But aren't people in those hi-fi magazines also a bunch of people you don't know? What about the people on hi-fi forums? Do you personally know them? I think that you are contradicting yourself.

I'm not contradicting myself. It looks like you're just nit-picking, probably because you have no answer to most of the comments I made earlier.

People on hi-fi forums cover a wider range of experience/expertise on hi-fi than people who come to places like this. As such, they are more likely to have sections on hi-fi packages costing as much as £4000, as opposed to the mainly budget stuff that is mostly talked about in this Forum.

Regards hi-fi magazines, obviously I don't know any of the staff, but I wouldn't mind betting they know far more about hi-fi than most people here. It's their job to test the equipment properly and report faithfully, and if they get it wrong their jobs will be at risk, plus the reputation of the magazine itself.

Looking back at the OP, I see that the poster has already looked in the hi-fi magazine that I would recommend. That's the one I have used in the past and have found to be very good. If the poster looks a bit harder through recent issues he will see that the Spendor A6 loudspeakers are highly recommended. In fact, that's what I purchased together with a Cyrus 8Se CD player, Cyrus 8 XP amplifier. I auditioned the whole lot at a the head office branch of a major UK retailer hi-fi network, and decided that was the best system not just for sound quality but in other respects met all my requirements. Together with cables it cost nearer £4500.

I would still urge anyone contemplating this kind of expenditure to consult specialised hi-fi forums for further ideas, and to check up on the latest recommendations in a reputable magazine. Produce a short list and find a good dealer to demonstrate it. Sit there for at least half an hour and listen to a variety of material. What I did was to tape my own voice and listened to that. It's amazing how good a test that is for broad tonal accuracy.

Originally Posted by Opal

I'm not contradicting myself. It looks like you're just nit-picking, probably because you have no answer to most of the comments I made earlier.

You first wrote this:
"Sorry to disagree but I would never, ever seek advice on hi-fi hardware from a bunch of people I don't know."

then this:

"I have set out my reasons for believing that the best approach for buying hi-fi with a budget of £4000 is to consult the hi-fi magazines and hi-fi forums"

I think that is a clear contradicition.

Originally Posted by muxamed

You first wrote this:
"Sorry to disagree but I would never, ever seek advice on hi-fi hardware from a bunch of people I don't know."

then this:

"I have set out my reasons for believing that the best approach for buying hi-fi with a budget of £4000 is to consult the hi-fi magazines and hi-fi forums"

I think that is a clear contradicition.

Of course it is. My guess would be that there are 2 kinds of "forum people" - those who agree with him and those who disagree, and he was not thinking of the same group of people when he wrote those two sentences. It could be translated as:
"I would never, ever seek advice on hi-fi hardware from a bunch of people that don't think like me."
and
"I have set out my reasons for believing that the best approach for buying hi-fi with a budget of £4000 is to consult the people who think like I do".
Your so-called "nit-picking" is in fact "unwanted pointing to obvious nonsense", and people react to that the way you just saw.
Not that you didn't know this, but a bit of clarification never killed anyone...

Thank you graaf

Originally Posted by muxamed

You first wrote this:
"Sorry to disagree but I would never, ever seek advice on hi-fi hardware from a bunch of people I don't know."

then this:

"I have set out my reasons for believing that the best approach for buying hi-fi with a budget of £4000 is to consult the hi-fi magazines and hi-fi forums"

I think that is a clear contradicition.

You have very obviously misquoted me by extracting only the bits that support your twisted view of what I have been attempting to say.

This is what I actually said and the record clearly shows it:

From my post No 8

Then you should go to a hi-fi forum for advice, or even better a decent hi-fi retailer. This is the last place I'd look for advice on spending that kind of money (emboldening added).

Then in response to your query, I wrote in my post No 13:

I have set out my reasons for believing that the best approach for buying hi-fi with a budget of £4000 is to consult the hi-fi magazines and hi-fi forums, then draw up a short list of possible brands, and then go to a decent hi-fi retailer to demonstrate the equipment you want to listen to. I specifically wasn't suggesting going to any old retailer because obviously I fully accept that if they see some goon walk in, who is still wet behind the ears, there is a high risk of being fobbed off with unsuitable equipment. (emboldening added).

As is perfectly clear from these two statements, I was specifically referring to situations where someone is contemplating spending £4000 on hi-fi, which is a lot of money and I would guess far in excess of the standard of equipment typically found among members of this Forum, and therefore outwith the ability of most people to comment.

There is obviously no inconsistency between recommending hi-fi magazines and hi-forums where expertise does reside, and not recommending looking for advice on places like this where I assess there is little if any relevant expertise at that level of expenditure. If you disagree, what exactly is the inconsistency? Please spell it out carefully.

Originally Posted by graaf

Of course it is. My guess would be that there are 2 kinds of "forum people" - those who agree with him and those who disagree, and he was not thinking of the same group of people when he wrote those two sentences. It could be translated as:
"I would never, ever seek advice on hi-fi hardware from a bunch of people that don't think like me."
and
"I have set out my reasons for believing that the best approach for buying hi-fi with a budget of £4000 is to consult the people who think like I do".
Your so-called "nit-picking" is in fact "unwanted pointing to obvious nonsense", and people react to that the way you just saw.
Not that you didn't know this, but a bit of clarification never killed anyone...

Don't you think all this is more than a little "****-stirring"?

Originally Posted by Opal

There is obviously no inconsistency between recommending hi-fi magazines and hi-forums where expertise does reside, and not recommending looking for advice on places like this where I assess there is little if any relevant expertise at that level of expenditure. If you disagree, what exactly is the inconsistency? Please spell it out carefully.

This sounds perfectly sensible to me, given that you are referring to high end equipment.

As a general rule, the fact that members here like classical music doesn't necessarily mean they have expensive hi-fi kit. Some may have it but I would agree they are probably the exception.

What are you going on about Muxamed? I can't see any contradiction worth making an issue of.

Originally Posted by Andy Loochazee

What are you going on about Muxamed? I can't see any contradiction worth making an issue of.

Please read my previous posts. Maybe it's not worth making issue of but it is still a contradiction.

Originally Posted by muxamed

Please read my previous posts. Maybe it's not worth making issue of but it is still a contradiction.

I have read all of your and other's posts most carefully.

I cannot understand what you are going on about.

There is nothing inconsistent between recommending one type of advice on hi-fi and not recommending another type. Only if both types of advice were the same, or broadly similar, might there be a case for making such an accusation, but they are definitely not similar in this case. One type offers specialised advice on hi-fi, and the other exists to enable discussion of primarily classical music. Some classical music lovers might be interested in hi-fi, but I guess not many. Even fewer would be knowledgeable of expensive hi-fi costing several £’000 which is the topic of this thread.

I suggest you might drop this as you are simply stirring up trouble unnecessarily.

I note that you have had absolutely nothing, and I mean nothing, of substance to say on this thread relevant to the topic. Nor have I but I don't know enough about expensive hi-fi to comment.

Originally Posted by Andy Loochazee

I note that you have had absolutely nothing, and I mean nothing, of substance to say on this thread relevant to the topic. Nor have I but I don't know enough about expensive hi-fi to comment.

Maybe it is true but the main reason why I reacted was Opal's posts which can be summarized as follows: "this thread should not exist at all as there is no enough expert knowledge related to the op's question". If you have read the thread carefully then you surely have noticed at least two other persons who raised objections to Opal's statements. How is it possible to say anything of substance if we a priori don't have enough expert knowledge related to the topic?

Nevermind I am dropping this now!

Hi. I'm back, also as a sign of the discussion in the forum being worthwhile (at least for me).

I've spent some time listening and narrowing down to the following:

Speakers - Proac Studio 140 or Epos M16i

Amp - Audio Analogue Verdi Settanta, Cyrus 8 XP or Primare I30

CD - Cyrus 6 SE, Audio Analogue, Rossini Rev 2.0. or the new (and cheaper) Crescendo.

Does someone know of some obvious drawbacks or incompatibilities between these components I should be aware of ?

And, as food for thought: at the start of my journey, I listened to a pair of canadian Totem speakers, which were the only ones I listened to that were able to clarify a rather nasal forte woodwind passage at the start of Mahler's 8th Symphony (Sinopoli, DG). Being a musically experienced but hi-fi-naive listener, at first I thought that should be a good indicator of whatgood speakers sound like, but after listening to very good ones, I decided the passage really sounds nasal, and the speakers rearrange the sound so that it must be unreal. Interesting...

Originally Posted by antoniolopes

Hi. I'm back, also as a sign of the discussion in the forum being worthwhile (at least for me).

I've spent some time listening and narrowing down to the following:

Speakers - Proac Studio 140 or Epos M16i

Amp - Audio Analogue Verdi Settanta, Cyrus 8 XP or Primare I30

CD - Cyrus 6 SE, Audio Analogue, Rossini Rev 2.0. or the new (and cheaper) Crescendo.

Does someone know of some obvious drawbacks or incompatibilities between these components I should be aware of ?

And, as food for thought: at the start of my journey, I listened to a pair of canadian Totem speakers, which were the only ones I listened to that were able to clarify a rather nasal forte woodwind passage at the start of Mahler's 8th Symphony (Sinopoli, DG). Being a musically experienced but hi-fi-naive listener, at first I thought that should be a good indicator of whatgood speakers sound like, but after listening to very good ones, I decided the passage really sounds nasal, and the speakers rearrange the sound so that it must be unreal. Interesting...

Ah yes, I've experienced this times since getting really good headphones and an amp. Brings out the bad sounds as well as the good

I wonder what he decided on? I would've gone for Mordaunt-Short Aviano 6 (600), Cyrus CD 6 SE (900), and Cyrus 6XP (900), without even auditioning.

On the other hand he might have made his own amp and speakers, saved a fortune, learnt a few new skills and ended up with something that would have cost say £7,000 retail (this is just for an amp and speakers) and then divided that figure by 34.

Ah well such is life.

Jim

Hah. Just to throw a knuckleball or two at the subject: To audition speakers anywhere but in the place where they will be used is, ah, contraindicated. The Ohm Walsh line, which is distributed in Europe (so probably is available in the UK) offers a 120 day in-home trial (that long to allow for break-in) as standard procedure. In addition to the obvious advantage, this allows Determination of Suitability testing of the amplifier, although that should be discernible from hi fi magazine test measurements.