Thread: Hi-fi for classical music

Hi, I'm new to the forum. Greetings from Portugal!

I'm looking for a system (speakers, amp and CD player) on a 4.000 £ budget, for listening to classical - everything from chant and song to Mahler's 8th. My room is medium size, with lots of wood and sofas. I´ve visited the few dealers here who offer demonstrations, but the choice was limited, as was the advice. I liked the BW CM9 speakers, and as to amplifiers, I've thought about the Cyrus 6 XP amp and 6 SE CD, which got awards from What Hi-Fi. I'm looking for the most realistic sound. Could you help me? Thanks.

The best is to listen yourself and find the sound that suits your preferences.

If you do like the CM9, you will need a much more powerful amp than the Cyrus you refer to. And with such a handsome budget go for a separate pre-amp power amp combination.

You would need at least 100-150W per channel to do justice to such speakers.

Consider getting the B&W 805s - perhaps your dealer will let you compare them. You do not need heavy bass for classical music and you said you don't have a large room. The 805s (well the whole B&W 8 series) are phenomenal speakers.

Ut Pictura has it figured out. Cyrus + B&W is going to be hard to beat, unless you're prepared to audition a lot of gear. But at that price level, it seems sensible to take your time.

My room is actually 6 x 5 meters, and I'm looking for floor speakers.
I've been told to consider Proac speakers too, B&W 8 series and Martin Logan, and also Audio Analogue, Primare and Roksan amps (which ones?). Too many choices, and very few opportunities to listen to them here.

Wow. Won't those huge floorstanders drown your room? It'll be like an echo chamber.

B&W series speakers are great sounding. I had a pair of cheaper 602/3s. They were ghastly large and black and just sucked the air out of the lounge (mine is 7x5m). I got rid of them and got some nicer period stand speakers. 90's period that is

What matters more is your set up for your amp. The Roksan Caspian were great. They are still too large for my taste. I like small hi-fi furniture! Cyrus are fine ~ great sound, but visually inferior to the Musical Fidelity fit and finish.

Originally Posted by Ut Pictura

The best is to listen yourself and find the sound that suits your preferences.

If you do like the CM9, you will need a much more powerful amp than the Cyrus you refer to. And with such a handsome budget go for a separate pre-amp power amp combination.

You would need at least 100-150W per channel to do justice to such speakers.

Consider getting the B&W 805s - perhaps your dealer will let you compare them. You do not need heavy bass for classical music and you said you don't have a large room. The 805s (well the whole B&W 8 series) are phenomenal speakers.

Thanks.I´ve just received the price for the new 805 Diamond, and they are way out of my budget. Perhaps there are less powerful speakers than the MC9 that are also cheaper, not more expensive, and more adequate to my room size. What about Proac?

Perhaps others can help you with Proac - I only know B&W. I have 603 which is equivalent to the 684s - you can look at the 683s which are 3 way floorstanders which is the top of the 6 series range.
Or even look at the 7 series. B&W have discontinued this series but you can still get brand new ones (and probably at a good price) - the 7 series is great - very suited to classical music.
You can even look at the CM7 which will be less boomy in your room and cheaper than the CM9. They say,though (I have never listened to them), that the CM range (which is a relatively new series from B&W) is not the classical B&W sound.
Read reviews online - but of course it is all about you listening to them yourself. Everyone will tell you that.
As far as I am concerned, and I am sure there will be other opinions, which of course I respect - B&W is in a class of its own, for transparency, neutrality, naturalness, whatever you want to call it. The mid-range and tweeters are the most important in classical music and that is where B&W shine. Other speakers may 'pump more' but that kind of bass is unnatural.
This is just my opinion.

Originally Posted by antoniolopes

Hi, I'm new to the forum. Greetings from Portugal!

I'm looking for a system (speakers, amp and CD player) on a 4.000 £ budget, for listening to classical - everything from chant and song to Mahler's 8th.

Then you should go to a hi-fi forum for advice, or even better a decent hi-fi retailer. This is the last place I'd look for advice on spending that kind of money.

Originally Posted by Opal

Then you should go to a hi-fi forum for advice, or even better a decent hi-fi retailer. This is the last place I'd look for advice on spending that kind of money.

And the reason is?

Originally Posted by muxamed

And the reason is?

Several:

£4000 is a great deal of money for hi-fi and I very much doubt that the vast majority of people on this music forum have any experience of equipment at that level of sophistication. There may be a few but I wouldn't trust what they say because they are almost bound to recommend what they bought, which happens to suit their tastes and requirements when they bought it which could be several years ago. The chances are that some equipment, even if very good at the time they bought it, may have been superseded by other brands in the meantime which are better or cheaper for the same quality.

Some equipment is not available in some markets, so there is no point recommending it.

There is no point recommending a very high quality but bright amplifier, unless the other components will match it to give a good overall sound. Achieving good balance is difficult.

Some equipment can be very revealing of detail but only if you turn the volume up to levels that are impractical for your domestic circumstances. Cheaper equipment may well suffice.

I can't see why someone is spending as much as £4000 on hi-fi needs advice from a place this. If it's their first move into serious hi-fi from the junk end of the market, they probably won't appreciate it. If it's not, and they are upgrading from semi-decent equipment, they ought to know enough about the subject to seek out the best buys for themselves.

Can the equipment be upgraded at a later stage? Is the manufacturer likely to be around in a few years time? Can spares be obtained easily? Can you try it out at home first without commitment? These are important issues that seldom get mentioned in places like this.

Product design and appearance are important issues for some people. They may not want a super-fantastic amplifier in black and a super-fantastic CD player in silver which is only half the size of the amplifier. They may not want floor-stander speakers. They may not like the idea of having different brands of equipment as between amplifier and CD player. All these issues of design are highly personal matters of taste which render general advice on technical quality alone on forums like this mostly a waste of time.

Generally speaking, by far the best way to buy hi-fi equipment is to look in good quality hi-fi magazines for advice, then to draw up a short list and find a good dealer to demonstrate it using CDs that you know. Ask the retailer to point out the the good and the bad of the equipment they are demonstrating to you, because the chances are that a typical customer won't have noticed all of them. It's their job, they're doing it all day long, and in my experience they won't try to rip you off. They will know what equipment can sound great for a few days and then begins to grate on your nerves.

Opal,
I think antoniolopes asked the question because he would like to know what people on this forum think. You insult his intelligence if you assume, as you seem to below, that he will spend £4000 on the basis of one forum recommendation alone. I am quite sure that he is doing research on a number of levels (one of them being, what people like him, who listen mainly to classical music, listen to their music on) .. and that he is intelligent enough to consider most of the (very valid) points you make in your comment below, by himself.

I actually disagree with you is concerning the objectivity of hifi retailers. a) they do not have experience with classical music recordings, and normally punt a specific brand. When I bought my system, one retailer who sold me amp and cd player insisted on certain speakers he stocked, while the retailer who sold me speakers trashed my amp and cd because they promoted a certain brand. And that experience has been repeated since then a number of times in different contexts. Retailers are important for certain bits of information - but any shopper, and this is the bottom line, knows this and is adept at making 'compensations' in their mind.
And people on this forum do not have any reason to promote their own systems other than when they are extremely happy with them...

Originally Posted by Ut Pictura

Opal,
I think antoniolopes asked the question because he would like to know what people on this forum think. You insult his intelligence if you assume, as you seem to below, that he will spend £4000 on the basis of one forum recommendation alone. I am quite sure that he is doing research on a number of levels (one of them being, what people like him, who listen mainly to classical music, listen to their music on) .. and that he is intelligent enough to consider most of the (very valid) points you make in your comment below, by himself.

Thank you, Ut Pictura . I couldn't have said it better than that.

Originally Posted by Ut Pictura

I actually disagree with you is concerning the objectivity of hifi retailers. a) they do not have experience with classical music recordings, and normally punt a specific brand.

Very true ... exactly what I found when I was searching for and building my audio component system several years back. I finally found one retailer who was willing to listen to what "I wanted" and who not trying to promote their "store brand".

Originally Posted by Ut Pictura

. . . And people on this forum do not have any reason to promote their own systems other than when they are extremely happy with them...

Bingo .

Bottom line is that this forum IS a great place to have this kind of discussion.

Originally Posted by Ut Pictura

Opal,
I think antoniolopes asked the question because he would like to know what people on this forum think. You insult his intelligence if you assume, as you seem to below, that he will spend £4000 on the basis of one forum recommendation alone. I am quite sure that he is doing research on a number of levels (one of them being, what people like him, who listen mainly to classical music, listen to their music on) .. and that he is intelligent enough to consider most of the (very valid) points you make in your comment below, by himself.

I actually disagree with you is concerning the objectivity of hifi retailers. a) they do not have experience with classical music recordings, and normally punt a specific brand. When I bought my system, one retailer who sold me amp and cd player insisted on certain speakers he stocked, while the retailer who sold me speakers trashed my amp and cd because they promoted a certain brand. And that experience has been repeated since then a number of times in different contexts. Retailers are important for certain bits of information - but any shopper, and this is the bottom line, knows this and is adept at making 'compensations' in their mind.
And people on this forum do not have any reason to promote their own systems other than when they are extremely happy with them...

Sorry to disagree but I would never, ever seek advice on hi-fi hardware from a bunch of people I don't know. There is far too much on the market even to begin to make any sense of it. Besides, from what I have seen on this Forum there simply aren't enough people with equipment at that level of quality.

I have set out my reasons for believing that the best approach for buying hi-fi with a budget of £4000 is to consult the hi-fi magazines and hi-fi forums, then draw up a short list of possible brands, and then go to a decent hi-fi retailer to demonstrate the equipment you want to listen to. I specifically wasn't suggesting going to any old retailer because obviously I fully accept that if they see some goon walk in, who is still wet behind the ears, there is a high risk of being fobbed off with unsuitable equipment.

Originally Posted by Opal

Sorry to disagree but I would never, ever seek advice on hi-fi hardware from a bunch of people I don't know. There is far too much on the market even to begin to make any sense of it. Besides, from what I have seen on this Forum there simply aren't enough people with equipment at that level of quality.

I have set out my reasons for believing that the best approach for buying hi-fi with a budget of £4000 is to consult the hi-fi magazines and hi-fi forums, then draw up a short list of possible brands, and then go to a decent hi-fi retailer to demonstrate the equipment you want to listen to. I specifically wasn't suggesting going to any old retailer because obviously I fully accept that if they see some goon walk in, who is still wet behind the ears, there is a high risk of being fobbed off with unsuitable equipment.

But aren't people in those hi-fi magazines also a bunch of people you don't know? What about the people on hi-fi forums? Do you personally know them? I think that you are contradicting yourself.

I have a marantz amp that does nicely connected to my ipod on its dock. My speakers alas are poor but I will upgrade soon. Best sound is through my Sennheiser headphones.