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Thread: Haprsichord or Piano - Would Bach Care?

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mandryka View Post
    I just found this article, which looks interesting

    https://www.thisisclassicalguitar.co...clive-titmuss/
    Thanks for finding this. A rather entertaining article. I agree with its conclusion.

  2. #77
    Senior Member LesCyclopes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RICK RIEKERT View Post
    Bach owned lute-harpsichords, but he never specifically mentions the lute-harpsichord, and there is no evidence to suggest he composed anything for it.
    Given the strong keyboard texture in BWV 996 and BWV 997, for example, and the fact that at least BWV 995 is unplayable on the lute, the evidence is quite clear that they were written for the lute-harpsichord.

    Anyway. My point was that playing them on the piano does not yield a good result. They need to be played on the harpsichord, preferably on the lute register.

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  4. #78
    Member RICK RIEKERT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LesCyclopes View Post
    Given the...fact that at least BWV 995 is unplayable on the lute, the evidence is quite clear that they were written for the lute-harpsichord.
    Reasonable folks can disagree, but one should not overlook the fact that, for example, BWV 995 has the following title in Bach's own hand: "Suite pour la luth par J.S. Bach". A frontispiece was added to this with the following: "Pièces pour la Luth à Monsieur Schouster par J.S. Bach".

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    Why is 995 unplayable? I mean what are the lutenists who recorded it doing? Are they changing the score?

    I've never heard it on lautenwerk, I like Leonhardt's performance very much.

  6. #80
    Senior Member tdc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mandryka View Post
    Why is 995 unplayable? I mean what are the lutenists who recorded it doing? Are they changing the score?
    I've never heard it on lautenwerk, I like Leonhardt's performance very much.
    They make transcriptions - from the article you posted:

    "These transcriptions exhibit the arrangers’ art in transposing basses, re-iteration of tied notes, simplifications of chords and the addition of idiomatic ornamentation."

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    Senior Member Tallisman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mandryka View Post
    I'm sure we've been over this ground before, but I want to tell you that you're underestimating the capacity of rhythmic rubato to create the illusion of dynamic variation.
    I like paintbrushes. But now that you mention it, I suppose I'm underestimating the capacity of my fingernail dipped in paint to create the illusion brush strokes...
    Last edited by Tallisman; Feb-14-2018 at 02:21.

  8. #82
    Member RICK RIEKERT's Avatar
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    For one thing, Bach wrote outside the range of the 13-course Baroque lute as we know it. In particular, he wrote bass lines that descend below the instrument's lowest open string. As a result some lutenists, such as Lutz Kirchhof, opt for the theorbo when performing BWV 995. Other lutenists such as Rolf Lislevand and possibly Joachim Held, use versions by Bach's lutenist contemporaries Christian Weyrauch and Adam Falkenhagen.

    It's interesting to note that the music is written in two staves, the tenor and the bass clef and not in French lute tablature as was the practice of the leading German lutenists of the period. It's possible, as German musicologist Tilman Hoppstock points out when discussing the possible intended instrumentation of BWV 995, that the work may well have been written and arranged for both the lute and the keyboard, with the intention of having a lutenist adapt and intabulate the works for performance. At least there is no evidence for excluding the possibility that BWV 995 has been arranged for both lute and harpsichord, and the hypothesis is consistent both with the fact that there are passages unsuitable for the lute, and with the autograph title “pour la luth”.

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    Now I'm wondering whether "luth" in "Suite pour la luth par J.S. Bach" is a portmanteau word for any lute like instrument, like clavier means organ, harpsichord, clavichord etc, "violoncelle" can mean an instrument with four or five strings . . .
    Last edited by Mandryka; Feb-14-2018 at 07:47.

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    Senior Member KenOC's Avatar
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    The specification may have been for a lautenwerck, or lute-harpsichord. This would appear to have an extended range. Bach owned two at the time of his death.



  11. #85
    Senior Member Larkenfield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KenOC View Post
    The specification may have been for a lautenwerck, or lute-harpsichord. This would appear to have an extended range. Bach owned two at the time of his death.

    Cool! . . . . . .
    "Without silence... there is no music."... Emil Gilels

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