The Stoic History of Indian Classical Music

**jurianbai** · May-09-2010, 15:43

I always interested in exotic music. I heard Indian music once in a while. In more detail topic later I will need to ask about Indian music influence to other region, that is the SE Asian. But later ... now on topic please.

**deeppurpled** · Oct-16-2010, 18:06

Im a student of Hindustani music(Indian classical music). The process of exploring new ragas(scale system) introduced me to a raaga called Malkauns. I had read about it that it is a mid-night Raaga and it attracts evil spirits. I did not believe these this until I experienced it myself. It may sound a bit strange and crazy just like I did not believe this the first time until I experienced it again. Well It was not a scary experience but a thrilling one. I still have that recording clip with me. Something very mysterious is associated with this pentatonic Raaga and It can be only experienced in person. I can leave you with this beautiful piece in malkauns by Ravi Shankar.
Enjoy!
Mohit Kumar
http://www.deeppurpled.blogspot.com/

**Lukecash12** · Apr-05-2011, 14:04

I have a semi-related question. I have started playing long raga style improvisations by looping a short melodic phrase and then using this as a foundation to solo over. As I understand it, having little knowledge in the inner workings of Indian classical music, each raga has a mode that defines it and also microtonal inflections that characterise it. I know that one is based on our harmonic minor scale with it's augmented interval between the 6th and 7th degrees. Could you enlighten me as to some other modes/scales that are used frequently in raga's and also how quarter tones and such are utilised?

I know that's not really a question to do with the history of the music but I thought this was an appropriate thread to ask it.

**Lukecash12** · Apr-05-2011, 14:13

Actually deeppurpled, I would consider Pandit Nikhil Banerjee and Bade Gulam Ali Khan's performance of Raga Malkauns to be a better demonstration of this demon attracting that you have referred to, because it is full of rhythmic drive and there is an aggressive emphasis in the middle of each sitar phrase. Overall, Banerjee's wild and varied ornamentation, and divide between refrain notes and aggressive emphasis in the middle, seems more well suited to Malkauns.

I would say, however, that Pandit Ravi Shankar is the go-to sitarist for Rag Bihag.

**Ralfy** · Apr-05-2011, 15:46

Thanks for sharing that! I'd like to include this link:

http://www.medieval.org/music/world.html

with recommendations on how to buy recorded works.

**Argus** · Apr-05-2011, 17:05

Originally Posted by Lukecash12

Thanks for the informative, if delayed reply.

I'm already pretty familiar with both Hindustani and Carnatic music now, and did use that Chandrakantha site for some knowledge early on.

I tend to use the Carnatic Melakarta and Janya ragams derived from them but prefer Hindustani instrumentation and form. The hardest part is not staying in the raag and defining the vadi/samvadi, but touching upon the shruti outside the mode using gamaka/alankar. I mostly use a synthesizer to imitate traditional instruments and although it has a pitch bend wheel it can't recreate subtle nuances like andolan and I can't sing dhrupad or khyal to save my life.

Some ragas are easier to play in and maintain the rasa than others I find. The ragas of the ten Hindustani thaats (Bhairav especially) are all pretty simple and some audava ragas like Hamsadhvani are just beatiful, but some I find very hard to retain the tonic/vadi/samvadi and prevent from drifting into related ragas with a different shadjam.

The non-standard spelling of terms confuses things as well. When I play a piece in a raga I'm not sure the name of I search for the sargam in this list, and some of the names seem like rough translations from Sanskrit.

My next main learning focus is the taal as I mostly use Teental or just play by ear. I've listened to Indian percussionists sing the rhythms using those syllables they use and it seems quite difficult to master. But to be honest, I am not interested in conforming exactly to all the traditions, like a good Western musician that I am, I'll pick'n'mix the bits that I like from various musical cultures and assimilate them into my style.

Also, Lukecash what do you think of L Shankar and his work with Shakti?

**Lukecash12** · Apr-07-2011, 13:38

Would you be specific as to who L Shankar is? I've got a good idea, of course, but I'm not sure.

**Argus** · Apr-07-2011, 17:16

Originally Posted by Lukecash12

Would you be specific as to who L Shankar is? I've got a good idea, of course, but I'm not sure.

The bloke who played with Shakti, not the female vocalist Lakshmi Shankar. He plays a ten-string double violin and worked with a lot of pop and rock acts. Some of his stuff I find hit and miss but his playing is excellent.

**chee_zee** · Apr-07-2011, 18:31

best thread ever. to any other people wondering about how to play Indian stuff, Karnatic or Hindustani, I recommend the book by M. Narmadha called "Indian Music and Sancaras in Ragas', it's over 500 pages and fills in the gaps left by websites devoted to indian music theory, very helpful in performance practice. In the summer I'm gonna make some backing tracks if anyone is interested, anything from simple 10, 15 minute kriti compositions to full hour long RTPs, using East West Ra. It wouldn't be too much of a lie to say that I probably like Indian classical more than European, thanks to the fact that there is both a compositional and improvisational element to it rather than just one or the other.

Ra has tabla and baya, sarangi, esraj, bansuri, and sitar, along with the tamboura. For me I standardly use the tabla/baya, the sarangi (esraj players are hard to come by) or just a violin, and of course tamboura, and then you play whatever instrument as the principal voice (I play guitar). the esraj, bansuri, and sitar can take the place of the sarangi/violin as the accompaniment voice, but esraj players are hard to come by, sarangi/violin is still more common than the bansuri or sitar as accompaniment so those two would just be when you want a different timbre to accompany you.

**Lukecash12** · Apr-09-2011, 09:58

Originally Posted by Argus

The bloke who played with Shakti, not the female vocalist Lakshmi Shankar. He plays a ten-string double violin and worked with a lot of pop and rock acts. Some of his stuff I find hit and miss but his playing is excellent.

Ya, I guess I'm not familiar with him, then. If it's someone in ICM who's gone into pop at all, I probably don't know him/her, because I tend to study sitarists from 1-2 generations back and study the different gharanas/schools.

Lakshmi is actually very similar to one of my favorite indian vocalists:

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?p=50D244CC4454C9D7

Pandit Omkarnath Thakur happens to be a fairly close predecessor in Lakshmi's gharana.

**Argus** · Apr-25-2011, 23:18

Best jugalbandi ever. Flute, saxophone (or sexophone as the title reads

) and morsing (jews harp), plus mridangam and tabla.

Never heard the saxaphone in Carnatic music before. It fits excellently. It sounds like its got some echo/delay put on it as well, but that could just be the acoustics.

I love the weird little Indian instruments like the morsing, jaltarang and the kanjira. They just add so much character to the raga.

**chee_zee** · Apr-28-2011, 16:45

never seen sax in Karnatak? I recommend signing up at saneethapriya.org, you can sign up for the site and the mailing list, gives you access to an incredible amount of video and audio of concerts, you can sort by instrument, artist, tradition, etc.

**Lukecash12** · Aug-29-2011, 23:46

I'm bringing this thread back into view, because I'd like to see if the people here want me to make a properly cited article out of it.

**chee_zee** · Sep-05-2011, 00:59

that'd be great for site ripping, please do.

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