Thread: Great non-classical music

Let's share and recommend non-classical music that we feel is great.
Of course, there is some great music that isn't in the classical realm.
I would go even further and say that there is some great music in every single genre.
However, some genres are better than others, but even the worst genres have its good moments.

How do I define high quality music that has merit and can be considered art?

For me this is any music that contains clear expression of musical ideas, that contains genuine emotionality, and that is original in some way. It doesn't have to be very complex or developed or advanced - it only has to be powerful, and its power must come from sincere emotions and not from intentional efforts to make music commercial and likable.
So, the music in order to be art must reflect real feelings and ideas of those who made the music - if it is made only in order to satisfy public, then it isn't art.
Also, aesthetics is important element in deciding if the music is of merit or not - but this is purely subjective. And finally even if the music is not emotional it can be of merit if it is aesthetically pleasing or has some cerebral appeal.

My definition is, of course amateurish, so if you don't like it, just disregard it and in this thread post links to non-classical music that you consider great, according to your own definition.

All genres are welcome, pop, rock, metal, jazz, folk, world, country, techno, house, trance, rap, hip-hop, gospel, R&B, soul, ... really whatever comes into your mind.

Be careful what you ask for.

Here is song that a music teacher in college (ca. 1974) thought was Avant-garde classical at first when I played it for him and he was trying to guess the composer. Man, was he hot under the collar and suddenly back peddling when it got to about the 1:00 minute mark!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_urbzehzks

Here's another piece by the same group -- bewilderingly complex, but also quite beautiful I think.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ro3eVIFzN5g
It's worth making it through the whole thing as it changes styles and moods throughout.

I've got about half a zillion more just as intriguing to me, but will not wear out my welcome at present.

Originally Posted by Weston

Be careful what you ask for.

Here is song that a music teacher in college (ca. 1974) thought was Avant-garde classical at first when I played it for him and he was trying to guess the composer. Man, was he hot under the collar and suddenly back peddling when it got to about the 1:00 minute mark!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_urbzehzks

Here's another piece by the same group -- bewilderingly complex, but also quite beautiful I think.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ro3eVIFzN5g
It's worth making it through the whole thing as it changes styles and moods throughout.

I've got about half a zillion more just as intriguing to me, but will not wear out my welcome at present.

Great Zeus! I haven't heard those guys in years... They are definitely one of the better prog rock bands out there (I used to own both those albums), but its no longer my cup o' tea.

Stars of the Lid is a duo (originally from Austin, Texas of all places), who use layers of effect-laden electric guitars to create really moody minimalist ambient music:

Articulate Silences, Part II

Even (Out) +

I Will Surround You

I generally don't listen to them too much however-- as beautiful as it is, it tends to depress me!

I'll go with Cousteau "The Last Good Day of the Year"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1lhBnQXwko

As well as Pink Martini "Amado Mio"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPlvi0irqW4

Simple Minds - Belfast Child (1989)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFIMJxV2tjI

Julie Covington - Don't Cry For Me Argentina (1976)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYrkuw1Io4Q

Ekatarina Velika - Par godina za nas (Catherine the Great - Just a Few Year Years Left For Us) - (1989) According to some people this song is the greatest rock song ever from the former Yugoslavia
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhXIJRrajNg

Time - Da li znaš da te volim (Do you know that I love you?)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkU65S8mWWQ

Be careful what you ask for.

Here is song that a music teacher in college (ca. 1974) thought was Avant-garde classical at first when I played it for him and he was trying to guess the composer. Man, was he hot under the collar and suddenly back peddling when it got to about the 1:00 minute mark!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_urbzehzks

Here's another piece by the same group -- bewilderingly complex, but also quite beautiful I think.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ro3eVIFzN5g
It's worth making it through the whole thing as it changes styles and moods throughout.

I've got about half a zillion more just as intriguing to me, but will not wear out my welcome at present.

Wow, thanks for it, Gentle Giant sounds great, even though I never heard them before.
Especially this second song "On Reflection" - I liked a lot.

"Classical music" is a term almost exclusively used by people outside the "classical music" world. It is effectively meaningless, as evidenced by the number of requests on this site for the name of a piece of "classical music" where the questioner appears to think that the mere presence of strings, and absence of drumkit, qualifies the music for the "classical" label.
The concept of "non-classical music" is therefore even more bizarre.
Far better to use a term I believe the Germans adopt - art-music - which then allows quality to be the criterion of inclusion rather than style.

"Let's share and recommend non-classical music that we feel is great." Could I make a plea for people to explain why they feel the music is great? And perhaps explain what they mean by great? (usually "X is a great piece of music" in places like this forum precisely and solely means "I like X a lot").

And is it not possible for people to offer a reasoned argument why a piece of music is great, and not just rely on their feelings?

I am afraid the Gentle Giant tracks are whimsical rather than "bewilderingly complex". If you want "bewilderingly complex" try analysing Stockhausen's Gruppen. Now that is a great piece of music!

I am afraid the Gentle Giant tracks are whimsical rather than "bewilderingly complex".

Is "bewilderingly complex" inherently a standard of "great" music?

Originally Posted by StlukesguildOhio

I am afraid the Gentle Giant tracks are whimsical rather than "bewilderingly complex".

Is "bewilderingly complex" inherently a standard of "great" music?

No, it isn't. Not in my opinion anyway. Complex is not the same as inspired.

I would like this thread to be for sharing and recommending what you consider great non-classical music.

Regardless of the definition of "great", and
regardless of the definition of "non-classical" .

I still hope that most people understand what those terms mean, and also, I still hope that most people refer to pretty much same concepts when they use those terms.

I will offer my own, very simple definition - which is not at all relevant to the thread, but you can use it if you like it.

So
great = of high artistic merit and/or significance (here again you can use ANY criterion in determining what is the thing that grants artistic merit and significance to a piece of music)

non-classical = created outside formal canon and without regards to conventions and rules of Western classical music. Another possible definition - music created by individuals without formal training and education in western classical music, or even if they have such education - any music whose style is different from the style of compositions accepted in the canon of western classical music.

Once again. Don't bother with definitions and theory.
Recommend WHATEVER you consider to be great non-classical music. By your VERY OWN definition.

If, by your definition
great = I like it, this is OK too. Post links to music that you LIKE.

Originally Posted by Jeremy Marchant

"Let's share and recommend non-classical music that we feel is great." Could I make a plea for people to explain why they feel the music is great? And perhaps explain what they mean by great? (usually "X is a great piece of music" in places like this forum precisely and solely means "I like X a lot").

And is it not possible for people to offer a reasoned argument why a piece of music is great, and not just rely on their feelings?

Saying 'X is a great piece of music' means exactly 'I like X a lot'. And if people say they think something is great yet they don't like it, or vice versa, they are pretty much talking out of the wrong hole. Also, I'm glad StLuke's is in this thread as he loves discussing this point.

As for Gentle Giant, I like a bit of prog (Pink Floyd, Focus, King Crimson, Rush, some Yes, Camel, Gong, a lot of the Canterbury bands) but some I just can't get into whatsoever. Gentle Giant, Genesis, Caravan, Van Der Graaf Generator, ELP and the prog-metal bands, with the possible exception of Tool, do absolutely nothing for me and I don't really know why. Genesis are especially puzzling as I don't really like any of their stuff but if I had to listen to some I'd choose the Duke and Abacab era over the Gabriel stuff. Saying that some of Steve Hackett's solo albums are decent.

Marmalade Circus is a 10-piece jazz ensemble from Adelaide, South Australia (my home town), and in the link is my favourite piece by them, called Salaam. It's stunning.

http://www.myspace.com/marmaladecirc...usic/playlists

Originally Posted by Argus

Saying 'X is a great piece of music' means exactly 'I like X a lot'. And if people say they think something is great yet they don't like it, or vice versa, they are pretty much talking out of the wrong hole. Also, I'm glad StLuke's is in this thread as he loves discussing this point.

As for Gentle Giant, I like a bit of prog (Pink Floyd, Focus, King Crimson, Rush, some Yes, Camel, Gong, a lot of the Canterbury bands) but some I just can't get into whatsoever. Gentle Giant, Genesis, Caravan, Van Der Graaf Generator, ELP and the prog-metal bands, with the possible exception of Tool, do absolutely nothing for me and I don't really know why. Genesis are especially puzzling as I don't really like any of their stuff but if I had to listen to some I'd choose the Duke and Abacab era over the Gabriel stuff. Saying that some of Steve Hackett's solo albums are decent.

Do you not feel it is possible to make a value judgement on music?
If not, then presumably it is impossible to do so for any area of human creativity.

I think we need to make clear and agree on the criteria we are using and then it is possible.

Pop, rock, jazz, classical and every other genre have examples of greatness.

You can compare apples- this one is crunchy, juicy and sweet while the other is dry and and tasteless. This banana is soft and flavoursome while that one is bland and powdery.

So,most people would agree on which apple or banana is the better example.
However it is not possible to say this apple is better than that banana. Although you may say I happen to prefer apples to bananas.

A great pop record cannot be compared to a great jazz recording or a great piano sonata.

Most music lovers like all sorts of music.

PS. I think Genesis's 'Nursery Crime' and 'Selling England By The Pound' both contain some wonderfully inventive an beautiful music amongst some naff bits and of course the silly silly lyrics. (that goes for most prog)

Originally Posted by Petwhac

Do you not feel it is possible to make a value judgement on music?
If not, then presumably it is impossible to do so for any area of human creativity.

I think we need to make clear and agree on the criteria we are using and then it is possible.

Pop, rock, jazz, classical and every other genre have examples of greatness.

You can compare apples- this one is crunchy, juicy and sweet while the other is dry and and tasteless. This banana is soft and flavoursome while that one is bland and powdery.

So,most people would agree on which apple or banana is the better example.
However it is not possible to say this apple is better than that banana. Although you may say I happen to prefer apples to bananas.

A great pop record cannot be compared to a great jazz recording or a great piano sonata.

Most music lovers like all sorts of music.

PS. I think Genesis's 'Nursery Crime' and 'Selling England By The Pound' both contain some wonderfully inventive an beautiful music amongst some naff bits and of course the silly silly lyrics. (that goes for most prog)

I'm tired so this might be a bit all over the place.

The problem with trying to grade art as good or bad or any kind of qualitative descriptor is that there is no measurement system that can be used to judge pieces of art against each other. Any kind of measurement system we introduce is only personal to ourselves and not an empirical sentiment that can be used as an entity outside of ourselves and amongst 'reality'. You can measure the loudness of a piece of music in sones, the pitches used in Hz, the duration of the piece in minutes or seconds as these are constant. I can't see how you can devise a measurement of a subjective factor like quality unless you crossover these objective measurements, which would be madness. This piece of music is great because it features X amount of frequencies for X seconds at X volume with X amount of silences etc wouldn't make sense. If it did make sense every artist would strive for the same goal and we would end up with homogeny.

However, to try to apply some kind of grading mechanism to art would automatically miss the point of art. And I can say that I, like everyone else, do not know the point of art. I just know what I like or at least think I know what I like. But what exactly is the difference between those two positions?

So, in summary, I think Terry Riley and Miles Davis are great but if someone said they are rubbish, I couldn't disagree with them.

I tried Nursery Crymes and Selling England by the Pound along with The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway and apart from a few moments where there was some semblance of groove and interesting rhythm, they felt overly lyrics orientated at the expense of musical excursion. I think they may be too much 'prog' and not enough 'rock'.