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Thread: what is modern music?

  1. #1
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    Default what is modern music?

    I am curious about finding out more about the more modern classical music (the music that was in the 20th century and now)........for example, conlon nancarrow, Ernst krenek, Xenakis, Pierre Boulez, Cage......

    What i was wondering about is if musical patterns play an fundamental role in much of modern music.......if that is what characterize modern music.....its form.......if the thing about modern music is to build patterns.......it's musical tapestries.....

    So much of the modern music is like logical puzzles, and the main satisfaction of listening to modern music is finding these patterns..........Is this view correct? anybody know?

    An example of a pattern (and a logical puzzle) is: 3 - 7 - 15 - 31 - 63 - 127

    Do you find the pattern(s) in this row of numbers? I am wondering if the enjoyment of classical music is akin to such a logical puzzle..and solving such a puzzle, or perceiving the pattern musically......of course, in music you will use the musical characteristics to build patterns.......you know, rythm, harmony, contrapunct.......

    I guess discovering musical form and patterns in Mozart/Bach/tchaikovsky (and the likes of these composers) also play a role.......but am i right in saying that the patterns has begotten an dominering role in modern music.......one has sacrified the more immediate listenability for patterns.........( i say immediate listenability, because i guess maybe that a modern composition becomes more listenable once you perceive its patterns.....) ????

    Is this view of what modern classical is all about (much of modern classical, anyways) correct?

    Thanks for any reply, i want to understand modern music!

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    Do you find the pattern(s) in this row of numbers?

    The next number = 2 X previous number + 1

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    I also want to understand modern music, but I still haven't researched enough. Some modern works I like, though - Carmina Burana is one of them (and not just O Fortuna, but whole work), Rite Of Spring is also one of my favorites (though these are not very contemporary anymore), I have listened to some piano works of Philip Glass, too, this is also quite listenable.
    I even like one piece of Schoenberg - Survivor From Warsaw - it's very powerful, emotional and even scary. I want to listen to more Schoenberg because people usually hate him, so I want to discover is he really that "bad". I am planing to listen to his earlier works such as Verklarte Nacht first (haven't yet done it), then I may progress to something newer.

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    Senior Member Earthling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pierre menard View Post
    So much of the modern music is like logical puzzles, and the main satisfaction of listening to modern music is finding these patterns..........Is this view correct? anybody know?
    I enjoy listening to quite a lot of "modern music" and I don't listen to them as "logical puzzles."
    At last to guess, instead of always knowing. To be able to say “ah” and “oh” and “hey” instead of “yea” and “amen. ” ~ Wings of Desire

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whistlerguy View Post
    Do you find the pattern(s) in this row of numbers?

    The next number = 2 X previous number + 1
    Could it be 0? 2 times 0 + 1 = 1

    the next number after zero is 1

    Am i correct?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whistlerguy View Post
    I also want to understand modern music, but I still haven't researched enough. Some modern works I like, though - Carmina Burana is one of them (and not just O Fortuna, but whole work), Rite Of Spring is also one of my favorites (though these are not very contemporary anymore), I have listened to some piano works of Philip Glass, too, this is also quite listenable.
    I even like one piece of Schoenberg - Survivor From Warsaw - it's very powerful, emotional and even scary. I want to listen to more Schoenberg because people usually hate him, so I want to discover is he really that "bad". I am planing to listen to his earlier works such as Verklarte Nacht first (haven't yet done it), then I may progress to something newer.
    Yeah, i like very much "rite of spring" by Stravinsky......there was a period many years ago when i constantly listened to it.......listening to it gets you a very immediate satisfation.......

    I like it that you want to listen more to Schoenberg because so many hate him, thats good!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Earthling View Post
    I enjoy listening to quite a lot of "modern music" and I don't listen to them as "logical puzzles."
    But dont you get an satisfaction and enjoyment out of possible patterns that are in the compositions? Is this not an vital part of much of this modern music?


    Is this not an fundamental part of the listening experience?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pierre menard View Post
    But dont you get an satisfaction and enjoyment out of possible patterns that are in the compositions? Is this not an vital part of much of this modern music?
    Hearing certain patterns such as sequences, imitation, that sort of thing, of course. But that is just as true of Bach as it is Boulez. But I don't listen to music as a "puzzle" to be solved. There's nothing puzzling about it.
    At last to guess, instead of always knowing. To be able to say “ah” and “oh” and “hey” instead of “yea” and “amen. ” ~ Wings of Desire

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    But I don't listen to music as a "puzzle" to be solved. There's nothing puzzling about it.
    Me too. And that's why I am not very quick to learn about the form of some works. I feel like if I analyze and dissect the piece some of its magic might be lost, the same way you lose enjoyment when you know how magician performs his tricks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Earthling View Post
    Hearing certain patterns such as sequences, imitation, that sort of thing, of course. But that is just as true of Bach as it is Boulez. But I don't listen to music as a "puzzle" to be solved. There's nothing puzzling about it.
    I understand that you dont have this relationship with music, that patterns are the main focus in listening and composing.......maybe the analogy with logical puzzles also wasn't the best........but do you know if what i am talking about, this point of departure with regards to music, is something that plays an vital role in much of modern music?

    Do you know any composers who compose by just taking consideration of patterns, exclusively patterns, and not immediate listenability?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whistlerguy View Post
    Me too. And that's why I am not very quick to learn about the form of some works. I feel like if I analyze and dissect the piece some of its magic might be lost, the same way you lose enjoyment when you know how magician performs his tricks.
    that is a good point whistlerguy.....i know what you mean.......i have'nt really analysed much of compositions.......for the most part my own.....or the results of my improvisations, for the most part, i guess.........

    but i had an experience where i watched a movie some years ago, and i got relatively obsessed with it and analysed it to pieces........and some of the magical feeling of seeing the movie disappeared and has never returned i guess.......it's still good but some of the magic is gone...........it has never been as good again as the first times i watched it...........

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pierre menard View Post
    I understand that you dont have this relationship with music, that patterns are the main focus in listening and composing.......maybe the analogy with logical puzzles also wasn't the best........but do you know if what i am talking about, this point of departure with regards to music, is something that plays an vital role in much of modern music?

    Do you know any composers who compose by just taking consideration of patterns, exclusively patterns, and not immediate listenability?
    I'm not sure what you mean by "patterns"-- if you aren't referring to motivic development, imitation, this sort of thing. I assume you are referring to serial technique?

    I find it better to get rid of as many preconceptions about musical language (tonality or lack thereof) when listening. Each piece has its own inherent "logic" if composed thoughtfully. If you listen to Webern's Passacaglia the same way as you would listen to a passacaglia by Bach, there will be obvious problems. Many of the techniques as far as form essentially are the same, though the harmonic language is not.
    At last to guess, instead of always knowing. To be able to say “ah” and “oh” and “hey” instead of “yea” and “amen. ” ~ Wings of Desire

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    what is modern music?
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    Who hates Schoenberg?!

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