science

I feel your pain, science.

Your blog is what led me to my last post on your thread. I really think it's not so much malice as it is the desire to show off that leads people to be so ill-mannered.

I guess there's no way to be sure to what degree people are alienated from classical music by this behavior, and how many are just alienated from the site.

You're right on both points. I should've distinguished between showing-off and malice.

I'm not actually sure how many people are or have been alienated from this particular site. I've seen it happen, though, on other sites. A curious newcomer shows up, with whatever particular set of enthusiasms and of course a huge lot of music yet unexplored; he starts getting subtly insulted by oldtimers who intend to imply that as a newcomer he doesn't have a right to his opinions. Sometimes a fight erupts, often the newcomer just goes away and who knows?

I'm not so concerned for classical music, which will survive us and our foibles, but for the individual, and for myself. Since I enjoy the music so much, I hope that the newcomers will explore it as I have been, and enjoy it as much, and the world will be just a little less lonely.

Thanks for your kind comment and insights.

Interesting blog, science, and as someone very new to the site, I must say I am somewhat taken aback by the extent of the negative posting. I'm also disappointed by the quality of the debate, though possibly I've chosen the 'wrong' threads.

Someone posted that this is not a site for the amateur. That prompted me to have a rummage, and see what I could find that actually tells newcomers what is here, what the site aims to do, and who it is aimed at. I couldn't find anything.

I went to the sub-thread for introductions, and read the latest post, where a newbie made the fatal mistake of naming a composer they have the temerity to like, and it triggered (though in jest) an immediate "I feel sorry for you" response.

Needless to say, I was not encouraged to try and introduce myself!

I'm not yet put off, though if I don't find a thread soon where I can discuss the things I came here for - or at least find a thread where I can respectfully and silently read and learn from what others are discussing - I may not stay long.

I'm glad you wrote this, and I agree heartily. I've been disgusted by a number of the long-term, prolific contributors here, and I've only been on the forum for, I don't know, 3 days now? I'm definitely out of here; there is simply no chance I'll submit to a bunch of pricks. Classical music probably deserves its death, by merit of its followers. Not unlike Christianity.

science,
I only discovered your blog today. Great stuff. As to this particular blog post, I say, Amen! I love it when someone on these boards describes his enthusiasm for a composer, especially one I haven't latched on to. That's the thing that brings me back to these boards. But far too often, advocacy becomes overly strident or even abusive, or people get this deluded sense that it's a zero-sum game: if you like Schoenberg, then I cannot properly enjoy my Mozart any more! And vice versa (you may recall "go drink tea and listen to Schubert," etc.) It's the same intolerant mentality of those people who think the existence of same-sex marriages would somehow "degrade"straight marriage.

Case in point. Right now, on your Brahms piano music thread, you have this one guy browbeating fellow lovers of Brahms into submission because they don't Brahms' piano music as much as his other works. I mean, what lunacy is this! Now if this person really wanted people to join the "cause" of Brahms' piano music, he'd be taking a very different approach--singing the praises of particular Brahms pieces, etc.--not calling those who disagree with him "wrong," uninformed "amateurs," etc. I can only conclude that, deep down, he doesn't want more members of his club. He enjoys his imagined sense of superior taste and discrimination. This kind of stuff always sends me back to Pierre Bourdieu.

Not to pick on this guy particularly--he's just one example out of many. There's a guy over at the AMZ boards who is extremely pushy about Schumann ("good hearts love Schumann") etc. etc.

What I am saying is, yeah, you've nailed it. However I don't think this is specific to CM. I have seen the same spitting contests going on on message boards about indie music. They can get even nastier, actually.

As to thesubtlebody, I do hope you don't get chased away by the pricks. I had a pretty nasty welcome here myself from some people. But we're not all like this.