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Is There a Great Composer You Plain Just Don't Like

164K views 2K replies 383 participants last post by  EdwardBast 
#1 · (Edited)
I have been listening to classical music since I was a teenager, about 40 years. My specialty is in the Romantic and Classic eras, but I try to expose myself to all kinds of Classical.
I know what I am about to say is tantamount to blasphemy on these forums, but I just don't like Johann Sebastian Bach. There, I said it. Outside of the Toccata and Fugue in D minor I can honestly say there is one piece of his that doesn't either put me to sleep or make me nervous or give me a headache, or all three of the above.
I know, I know. I've studied enough to know that Bach is one of the greatest of all the gods in the Classical spectrum. I know how extremely influential he was. I know most Classical fans adore him. I have given him chance after chance. I feel that there must be something in me that is somehow deficient to not appreciate his genius.
I am not looking for anyone to contradict my views, I fear they are set in concrete. I was wondering if anyone else has a virulent dislike to one of the acknowledged geniuses of Classical composition?
I am still very new to the forums and I was wondering what you think!
 
#862 ·
I love Bach, but I respect your courage to voice what may be an unpopular opinion. By the way, according to Wikipedia at least there is consensus among experts that J. S. Bach did not actually write the Toccata and Fugue in d minor attributed to him.

I don't know if he is considered a "great" composer, but I have never heard anything by Telemann that I liked.
 
#866 ·
Wagner.
I'd even listen to John Cage before I'd listen to Wagner.
 
#874 ·
Nothing. It's just during the period of supposed great Composers that don't really interest me. I guess I need to give it more of a chance. But my taste seems to be more towards the lush late Romanticism over Early Modernism generally speaking. For me, it's more melodic and memorable. Though some obviously disagree about that based on that one poll I made that got locked. Plus he dissed Vivaldi. :D (not really a reason)
 
#873 · (Edited)
I'm going to take out this of my chest: Schoenberg.
Of course, not because it's "atonal" music, since I like other composers from the 2nd viennese school and even integral serialism.
My thing is with Schoenberg, I can't find nothing that interests me in his music. His music simply does not appeal to me at any level. I don't even dislike it, it's a feeling of indifference.
Anyway, I hold him high because of his seminal introduction of the twelve-tone technique.
 
#881 ·
I haven't read this whole thread, but I'm floored that Ives isn't mentioned more often - is he mentioned at all?

Huge Ives fan here BTW.I have no shame in saying he is one of America's greatest musical treasures, maybe THE best. Our ears as of 2013 still haven't caught up to what he was doing, and this is the very early 1900's were talking.

Another fav of mine that is shockingly not on the "Hate List" is Varese. Maybe most folks here have never even listened to him I guess ;)
 
#882 ·
Our ears as of 2013 still haven't caught up to what he was doing
Speak for yourself. :) I understand and comprehend Ives just fine. In fact, Ives was one of the first composers I got into. Heard Central Park in the Dark (Bernstein/NY Phil. DG performance) and even then I knew he was one of the most original composers that ever lived.
 
#885 ·
I think relatively few people view Ives or Varese as "great" composers. I'm not saying few people think they are very good, but I think most people view this thread about major composers and likely felt composers such as Ives and Varese didn't "make the cut".

I think the numerous threads and posts that disparage modern composers suggest that a reasonable number here don't especially enjoy Varese. I'm not sure how people feel about Ives. When I first listened to Ives, I thought I might strongly dislike his music because I had heard such strong comments about the difficulty of his music. In fact, my first experiences were quite positive, and now I generally expect to enjoy works of his.
 
#891 ·
I think relatively few people view Ives as (a) "great" composer...
I would disagree. I think most people who study classical music would see the reasons why he was great. In academic circles it wouldn't surprise me if his 'greatness' was more widely acknowledged than a composer like Shostakovich. He was certainly more innovative and versatile, and I think his music shows an equal amount of technical mastery. I personally think Ives is as deserving as any composer in the 20th century of being considered 'great', and his music will continue to influence future composers.
 
#904 · (Edited)
Well I have pointed out that he was very innovative and versatile and had great technical mastery. As pointed out by Mahlerian these attributes were recognized by music scholars such as Bernstein, Cowell, and Schoenberg. I will add Stravinsky to that list who thought that Ives New England Holidays Symphony was among the greatest works of the 20th century.

May I ask which (if any) composers of the 20th century you consider to be great?
 
#910 ·
Ives is one of my favorite composers, but I would completely understand why someone who liked a lot of other classical music might not necessarily like Ives. To me, Ives' music is more like film music, evoking things rather than stating them. Even though I really like his music, I don't enjoy it unless I am in the right frame of mind to enjoy it. That isn't true of other composers like Bach, Mozart, Dvorak or Tchaikovsky. Their music is immediate and direct, and creates its own proper situation.

I also think Ives is quintessentially American. Not being British, I really don't fully appreciate Gilbert and Sullivan. I think Americans are more apt to understand Ives.
 
#911 ·
First, we're simply discussing the potential of calling a composer "great" so please let's keep the discussion focused on the composer's attributes rather than posters attributes.

As has been mentioned repeatedly on TC, the term "great" is poorly defined. I do not consider Ives a "top 50 composer". If that is one's definition (or something along those lines), I would not agree that he is great. But there exist enough of Ives' works that I find compelling, interesting, or beautiful that I feel he deserves consideration as "a major figure in western music". Some may say that does not make him "great". I'm happy to accept someone's view of a major figure in history as "great".

Among his works that I find wonderful are:
Symphonies 1, 2, and 4 (often beautiful and sometimes quite intriguing)
Piano Sonata No. 2 (original and compelling and sometimes over my head)
The Unanswered Question (beautiful and ethereal)
Central Park in the Dark (wonderful sounds juxtaposed throughout)
String Quartet No. 1 (beautiful)
Three Places in New England (overlap of melodies and dense construction make these fascinating)

I doubt any of this will change the view of one who feels Ives is not a major or great composer, but that's OK.
 
#912 ·
As has been mentioned repeatedly on TC, the term "great" is poorly defined. I do not consider Ives a "top 50 composer".
Well, when it comes to numerically ranking composers, I think things get pretty tedious and are inevitably swayed by our own 'era' preferences. But I personally do think a strong argument could be made for Ives being a top 50 composer, or higher. Though again the numerical ranking is pretty subjective and in my opinion doesn't really mean too much.

I forgot to mention Dave Frank, former associate professor of piano at Berklee College of music, (and who occasionally use to post here), considers Ives the greatest composer of the 20th century. I really enjoyed his tutorial on the piano music of Charles Ives.

 
#918 ·
Dvorak. Each time I hear a piece on the radio that I can't stand, it's usually by him. The first time, it was his set of Slavonic dances. Recently, it was his serenade in e major. I just remember the same violin melody being played over and over at different registers.
 
#920 ·
I can appreciate pretty much all of the great composers but I find it more difficult to get into the later romantic/modern music. I've heard some Bruckner for example, and actually liked it, but the sheer size of it requires a monumental amount of listening time, which I can't seem to find. I generally find baroque/classical music easier to get into because I generally like fast-paced, 'shifting' music.
 
#925 ·
But my real pet hate is Ludovico Einaudi. I've heard more interesting nursery rhymes.
Most of the time I've heard his music it's sounded like bad new age music rather than classical. So I think he gives a bad name to both classical and new age.
 
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#927 ·
The nearest for me would be Handel.

I say nearest because my exposure is limited so I would not call it an informed choice, likewise I would say it is more a lack of interest than actual dislike.

I do plan on giving Handel a try again down the line, but not in the immediate future.
 
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