I am NOT really "into" Symphonies, but recently I spent a good time listening Schubert's symphonies cycle. I just want to know populary which symphonies favorite each other, and also your personal references.
My cycle is the old '60s Staatskapelle Dresden by Wolfgang Sawallisch which the audio still sound excellent.
My favorite, temporary, like this :
1. no.5
2. no.8
3. no.4
4. no.9
and the rest in same order
I thought you are really "into" string quartets? Expanding the empire, are we?
Schubert was a very gifted melodist. His gift really suited the Lieder and smaller scale works, like chamber music. But when it came to the symphony, the subjective terms "a great symphonist" haven't often been used on him in the first instance. I enjoy his symphonies and the poor fellow would certainly have written a dozen more had lived much longer. I quite like #5 and #9.
I have never heard of your version from the 1960's. Mine (all symphonies) are played by The Hanover Band directed by Roy Goodman (on period instruments).
I think I've listen more than one version of no.8, because it is appears in many of Schubert's BEST OF CD. Btw, the set I have also did not included no.10.
I disagree with HC about Schubert not being a great symphonist. His earlier symphonies more or less adhere to the classical moulds set by Mozart & Haydn, but numbers 8, 9 & 10 (completed by Brian Newbould) greatly expanded what was the then traditional concept of a symphony, similar to Beethoven's 9th symphony. Indeed, when listening to that brooding and quite vague opening of the Unfinished, one can't help but think of Bruckner or even Mahler (they probably wouldn't have been able to find fault in such a work, either).
I have heard numbers 3 - 6 & 8 - 10. The 4th the "Tragic" is now being performed more live here in Australia, and I had the privelege to see it this year played by the Metropolitan Chamber Orchestra under Sarah Grace Williams. I also remember seeing the 10th at Sydney University in the '90's. The 8th "Unfinished" was performed this season by the Australian Chamber & Sydney Symphony orchestras, but I missed it.
As for a favourite? I think this is hard considering that they are all pretty good. If pressed, I think the last three (8, 9, 10), because as I discussed above, these are the works with which Schubert greatly expanded the definition of what could be (or what was to eventually become) a symphony...
There are certain works that seem to get neglected simply because they're not heroic and thunderous enough, however well they happen to be crafted. I think a number of Schubert's symphonies are such works, as are Beethoven's Eighth and his early piano sonatas.
Nos 1-3 I haven't heard as often (I've not long had Karajan's 1-4 on DG although I heard Norrington's 4 before this) so a provisional equal 6th for those - I'm guessing 1 & 2 won't get much higher, if at all. Amongst my recordings Abbado's 5 & 6 with the COE are very good, Bohm's 5-9 with the Berlin PO are robust and I very much like Munch's 8 & 9 with the Boston SO and Mackeras's 9 with the AAE.
There's no debate. The 9th is the best by far. The 8th could've been the one, it feels complete even as it is, but the breadth of scope, the sheer magnitude of the 9th makes it the favorite. Those two are fantastic examples of Schubert's mastery of the symphonic form. I have read multiple times "Schubert" and "great symphonist" in the same sentence. I'm not sure what HarpsichordConcerto means...
Preferring the 9+8, and sometimes listening a bit to 3+4-5 but not that well acquainted with them, I´d recommend the Mengelberg 9 (1942) as an example among the historical recordings, in spite of the dated sound. The orchestra is well integrated - with those wonderful engaged and fluent tempi and sudden acccelerations, accents and outbursts, he would often excel in. This is also case in the mysterious 2nd movement. The old-school Romantic Andre Maurois in the Toscanini LP-notes asks whether it should be seen for example as a funeral march, or an old legend told in music, or a poem describing the spring night - but cannot give an answer ...
There is another fine Mengelberg 9 from 1940 available on you-tube, where one can also find complete 8ths conducted by him. For a sample of the excited atmosphere, try
The symphonies are not among those where it is easy to discern a specific favourite among the recordings. I think only nos. 8 and 9 really has sufficient material and a sense of contemporary value to be labelled as true masterpieces, perhaps. The Abendroth 9 is a bit of a dark horse and has some interesting phrasings, the Scherzo lasting only 9:54, whereas Marriner in a typically somewhat laid-back modern performance takes 14:31. The finer details were usually not Abendroths´ force, though.
The notes in the Kleiber issue mention that no.8 was kept from performance by Schubert´s acquaintance Anselm Hüttenbrenner and only had its first concert performance in 1865, whereas the Kertesz of no.9 says that it too met a lot of refusal before finally being performed in 1839.
The Marriner set consists of a "completed" no.8, but the "completed" parts by Brian Newbould seem much less gripping; there´s a Scherzo of 6:31 and a Finale of 7:02.
The unfinished and No. 5 for me. No.9 may be his most ambitious symphony, but that doesn't necessarily make it his best. I would still rank it as my number three though.
I was torn between the 8th and 9th. The 9th might be said to be Beethovenian, most of its themes being given a very thorough workout, but I finally settled on the 8th on the strength of the memorable melodies. I have not heard the 10th.
the b minor came from a far distant galaxy, and it was dropped on Schubert's desk. Schubert simply copied it in his own handwriting and destroyed the original score.
But honestly, the B minor symphony is so unique it is unfathomable.
It's interesting that his 8th Symphony is so popular/loved, and it's only 2 movements, not even a complete symphony. So, it just goes to show that it doesn't take a 40-50 minute full symphony to catch people's attention.
Imagine what the other movements would have been like...
the other movements would have been garbage :devil: Schubert hit his peak in the second movement, and realized 2 other movements would have spoiled the symphony. somethings are better left unfinished.
I often listen to Schubert's symphonies at work, and last week I went through all the seven finished ones and the five or so unfinished ones.
The greatest: The Great. Isn't that how it got its name?
Possibly tied with the 5th. Those two are outstanding. The beginning of the 5th is just pure bliss.
In third place, my recent favorite: the 2nd. So energetic and catchy and full of life! Like in the beginning of the Allegro vivace after the introductory Largo of the first movement. Man...
Then, the 8th/Unfinished, of course.
After that, two more catchy ones: 1st and 3rd.
The 6th is good, but a little anonymous. The 7th is a little strange.
And at the bottom... Well, maybe I got a bad recording of the 4th, I don't know.
OT: The Finale of the Great would make a good wedding march, I think. It almost makes me want to get married some day.
I love Franz Schubert. I keep my torrenting hours especially for him.
My favorite is the Great C-major Symphony. I like it more than Herr Beethoven's Ninth. The second movement of Schubert's Ninth is pure heaven! It's like I hear angels singing on the symphony. The movement, full of high drama, punctuated by silence and the resolution on the end, made it my favorite movement on all Symphonies I heard.
The trio section in the Scherzo is awesome! If he only lived 10 years or more, he would be greater than Beethoven. Gasp!
He achieved more than in his 31 years than Beethoven, when Beethoveen is only 31.
peeyaj - strange how that majestic second movement from Schubert's 9th brings different images to mind. When I first heard it I imagined someone taking big strides in the fresh Tyrollean air.
Amen to that. The Ninth Symphony seems always fresh. You could always discover something new and it always blow my mind. For example, I hear thunders, galloping horses, cranking chariots and dancing babies.
Herr Schumann once said that Schubert introduce the song in the Symphony, in reference to it's song-like melody.
Best recording: Swedish Chamber orchestra on bis. It's perfect beyond words and I actually consider this the best recording I've heard of anything. I originally just bought it for value (the CD also contains no.8) but I was completely blown away.
Was that with the VPO on DG, Manxfeeder? If so, I used to have it but I'll be damned if I know where it's got to. It was the first recording of the 9th I bought so first impressions last - hence I liked it very much. I'd have to listen to it again in order to compare it with the others I have, though.
That's the one. One time I was going through all my Schubert 9s, and it was in this version where I noticed how that, though the melodies repeated without much variance, there were interesting colors and orchestral effects flitting along in the background.
I have them too. I'm not completely satisfied with the cycle and may consider HIP style recording in the future.
Anyways, I voted for 8 - it is a remarkably moving symphony!
Also have Karajan's EMI recording of 8 and 9 but the orchestra sounds too heavy and over-dramatic if I remember right. I don't feel like I have a recording that lets me enjoy Schubert symphonies to their full potential.
I find that the great problem with the 9th is pacing and if the conductor can't get it right he's lost. The best of all for this was Adrian Boult and in his very last concert he conducted it and it was magnificent. Others that I am particularly keen on are Steinberg with the Boston and Furtwaengler in 1951 and in 1953 live both with the Berlin Phil. Toscanini and Szell usually can do no wrong as far as I am concerned bot for this work I find them somewhat unrelenting.
No. 8. Favourite recording being the Suitner/Berlin Staatskapelle disc of Nos. 5 & 8.
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