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Allan Pettersson

42K views 199 replies 40 participants last post by  SanAntone 
#1 ·
I have recently finished listening to Petterson's Symphony No. 8 and I am listening to Symphony No. 10 right now. I do not understand why this composer is so under recorded? Is it because his works are dark and moody sounding? His works definitely have a tonal center to them. I find Symhony No. 8 of Pettersson's to definitely be one of my favorite symphonies; that is No. 8 in the middle half of the 20th Century. I need to listen to every symphony of his. Does anyone else enjoy listening to Pettersson's works? If so which ones?
 
#130 ·
Just see this 2013 YT upload, ,
starting at 6:24. *The 7th, the only sym folks wish to hear*,,7th7th7th7th7th7th7th7th7th7th7th7th7th7th, ,,,SEVENTH!!!!!!
If I had the authority, I'd place X # of year moratorium on the Pettersson Seventh. = banned, illegal to perform or further recordings.
I really really would.

Why?
You figure it out.

 
#133 · (Edited)
O Okay, I've heard his 1st, 6th, 7th, 10th and 11th symphonies. Does his music represent the zeitgeist of our times as it's been proposed? I do not mean to sound unfair or unkind to Mr. Pettersson, but I sincerely hope not, because if it is, we're all in trouble. Why? Because there's not an ounce of mercy or redemptive grace in the symphonies I've heard so far. None. Zero. Not for him, not for you, not for me. My overriding impression up to now is that his music portrays Man totally at the mercy of fate, including a number of malevolent forces that he sounds terrified of. Listen to the first 12 minutes of his 7th Symphony. He's huddled in a corner somewhere. He sounds petrified without any mitigating or higher forces to help him. It's like watching someone in a state of purgatory and he's describing what's going on there but trapped with no way out.

What's interesting about it is that he seems to be describing what's going on in that dimension, so I feel compassion for him, but I do not share his stark reality that his music portrays. His symphonies are full of never-ending stress, tension, and crisis with no relief. The elements in his music that are so brilliantly done, it's polyphony, which can be very compelling and intriguing, is in constant motion with maybe a brief moment of respite, but then it's back to crisis as normal, and the symphonies may simply be the crisis of his own physical pain, anguish, and hardship in sound that he's experienced throughout his life. It's hard to say. But whatever he's saying, I do not feel that it's universal not enough, constructive enough, hopeful enough, inspiring enough, to attract a wide audience and to place him in the league with the other greats, though I would consider him one of the most talented composers of the 20th -century in ability but not necessarily his variety of content.

He stays in one basic mood for an entire symphony and cannot seem to get out of it, causing his emotional range to be very narrow rather than wide despite some of its surface interest and appeal. I even skipped ahead to his 15th Symphony to see if he was feeling any better, to perhaps have found the silver lining in his misery somewhere, and it was more of the same stress and crisis. In the event that his music is the zeitgeist of the times, I view it primarily as a warning to mankind with regard to the road it's going down of bleak and potential self-destruction. But there's very little light that I see in it, nothing whatsoever that's inspirational or what I would call spiritual… not religious, but spiritual in the sense that there's an animating light that exists within creation that can lead one out of the purgatory of pain, anguish, nihilism and negativity, including of the psychological and emotional kind. I feel compassion for what he went through but I question what he may have gotten out of it that could represent something in the way of healing or redemption. May he rest in peace.

PS. I find no mystery in why his 7th Symphony is the most popular and the one that people most often request or turn to: It's the only one with a few moments of calm and perhaps even a peaceful serenity and some relief from his grinding pain. The others that I've heard have virtually none of that but are rather a tension-filled agony from almost the beginning to the end. What a shame that he didn't know more peace and freedom from pain in his life because he could have included more of that, and most people's lives are not a relentless agony from the moment they get up in the morning until they go to bed at night. But with him, he had the agony of his health problems and that's why I think his symphonies are likely to have have been highly influenced by that. But why shouldn't that be the case when that's practically all that he knew. It was his reality and he painted it in sound. On the universal level his music could signify the agony of the world that were all born into. I do not regret the time I spent on him.
 
#134 · (Edited)
Somewhat serene, comforting or beautiful endings are the 9th with Comissiona, the 2nd Violin Cto with Haendel, and, some would say, those of the 8th, the 7th, plus the 6th with Kamu.

I agree that a lot of our musical taste is partially influenced by psychological content, interpretation, and preferences. I don't hear him staying in one mood forever, however, there are conflicts, developments and times of respite or examples of an oasis of calmness.

As said before, he hated the idea that his music was self-biographical and self-pitying; traits of the style were already there before his illness, and his choice of texts deals with social and societal issues.
 
#135 · (Edited)
I am beginning to think that comparisons are limiting and selective, eliminating certain music or ranking it, and in this sense act to reinforce personal paradigms. I am an "omnivore" as a listener, so I approach a wide range of music in an objective manner, and also possess a humility regarding even my own tastes. I've always been this way. To a large degree, I am interested in exploring and covering unfamiliar ground, not in "building an identity" in music.

Pettersson has said that his own "egocentricity" as an artist can be interpreted as the lonely, sick, and bullied reaction against the unimaginativeness of the healthy person. If he is aware of this quality in his own work, it is no wonder that it does not have wider appeal.

It also brings into question the relevance of opinions of his music. For example, if we look up Pettersson in Wikepedia, the music is explained somewhat, and facts of his life are given, but nowhere do we find opinions of what "ranking" he holds, or if his music is "good or bad." It is simply accepted that he is an artist who has achieved recognition as an artist.

In this light, even a thoughtful, insightful assessment of Pettersson's music can be seen as a strategy to build up one's own views, if that assessment represents a refusal to engage to a degree of acceptance, and also espouses "consensus views" of what constitutes a "healthy view of Man," while at the same time attempting to "warn" or dampen the enthusiasm of those who might approach his music, or already hold him in acceptance.

A certain egocentric disdain comes through in such criticisms.

While there may be a certain out-of context 'objectivity' to such critical statements, they ultimately are in service of a non-acceptance of Pettersson's aesthetics, and ultimately serve the critic's own worldview.

If the net result is a refusal and failure to engage with the work, allowable, but irrelevant in the big picture, there is an inherent contradiction, because Pettersson openly admits to having a negative outlook; indeed, this is his subject matter: Man's inhumanity to Man. This is what must be accepted as a "given" if one is to engage with the art.

So any "protest" against Pettersson's negativity is at odds with the intent of the art, and is therefore a statement that serves only to reinforce a negative opinion, and nothing more as regards the art.

Even any accompanying understanding of the work is therefore flawed, since it represents a failure to engage; how does this failure color the experience, and what does the non-acceptance "leave out," in terms of truly engaging with the work? Can such a disdain and refusal to engage contribute to a real understanding: No, it is a refusal to accept; it is a rejection.

Such reactions must therefore be seen as egocentric; failures to engage which are "political" in that they are designed to persuade others to avoid engaging; or act as "smear campaigns" in portraying the music as "not worth" the engagement because of certain factors.
 
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#136 ·
WOW, Off my chart, Out my league, I will have to print out your Essay , due my due diligence of deep pondering, I mean I would need references from Plato, Jung and Nietzsche to follow up on your exposition. But why? As you kept things within the a range where most here can follow your conclusions.
Yet I need some days or weeks to gather in all the jewels offer and follow up on the gold vein which you obviously has led us to the mother load.

I just don't think how you said things here will be surpassed as far as conciseness, precision, context, and quality of content..
Not sure if Petterssson has ever been expressed even close to your broad and telescopic insights.


I hope In coming days/weeks I can add a few notes, to allow others to see what I observe in your expressions of Pettersson's sound world.

Obviously you are responding to the COUNTLESS comments all over YT, classical chat sites, from the MANY who enjoy and get a kick of splashing a touch of spittle and disdain for Pettersson's music.
I know exactly it is these *outsiders* who you have in mind.
This rush to judgement from the countless Pettersson critics , their slurs has fbeen like firewood which formed in the kiln , these ideas you present here.

I have no plans to post anything futher on TC< until I can gather up what you just expressed, and hopefully can forma descent follow up.
Until that time,
You guys takes care.

I will look at the links to the Kamu 6th. Not too tech savvy, no MP3 apps, I only use CD's.
 
#138 ·
From the Mp3 1 minute clips, I know the 6th CPO well, I am will prefer the CPO over the Kamu. I just know it, Also the Comissiona, 9th, I will also prefer the CPO.

Others here know me as the *clip review master*.
I am a completist in all things Pettersson, but with the BIS/CPO I am not looking for further recordings.
 
#139 · (Edited)
@Best, I view encounter with art as a positive experience, not a negating one. Art is in many ways like a religion; it is not science, can't be "proven," so its only value is in the experience we get from that engagement with the artist and his work.

If the experience is one of rejection, it cannot be relevant in terms of experience. Experience in art only has meaning if it is engaged. To engage is to have good faith in the artist and his work. Just like religion.

Art can't be "objectified" and exempted from subjective experience of engagement and still retain its meaning.
 
#140 ·
I note how often you write as arguing a case against some *collective opinionated group* mind set/collective unconscious AKA *The invisible censorship*, which I've also run across quite frenquently, here/there, yonder /the ubiquitous collective VETO, of any idea which they can not fit into THEIR AGENDA's standards.

Of course art has to do with philosophy/religion,. Note how often a sense of importance Plato, Nietzsche, Jung give attention to art as the voice of the creative unconscious,, I did not say *collective* unconscious , as art can never be for the ,,,well yes it can, Art can be for a group collective conscious,,,the group which is say drawn to Mahler, Bruckner, Brahms, all will share a similar identify of values. They think, act alike in some GENERAL pattern.,

Now , as I, and no doubt as per your previous posts, tend to seek the , individual way, Lao Tzu's The Way, unique, individual, alone, outside votes don't really matter much as to your love for a certain composer/style/genre.

Now its true , you may be drawn towards a generally accepted major composer, but has nothing to do with popularity.
Then later on you may feel you;'ve outgrown that composer, time to move on,,,,or move back towards.
You enjoy your freedom, inspite of , how the group wishes you would act.
ie, a strong aversion towards Pettersson,,,what does this negativity, shallow at times, which reflects more on their lack of discernment than any real understanding of what they ACTUALLY heard in Pettersson….., what does this shallow , biased opinion towards Pettersson, have to do with you?

Beethoven has been around some 200 yrs, Pettersson barely 20 yrs since his music appeared in CD format, and pre 20 yrs, , rare/OOP LP's.

So for anyone who considers themselves a *authentic classic-phile* and dismisses Pettersson, on a whim,, no longer irks, jolts, nor upsets my apple cart..
This stands to reason.
Pettersson is for the few, never will be for *the many*, It is this , way, and has to be more than just understood as a necessitated phenomenon, but accepted, nay, embraced.

Muisc can be a religious event, a voice of ones philosophy.
Depends on what the composer actually composed in terms of meaningful content.

I hope folks don;'t think, that music just comes forth from a brainless nitwit,,or worse, that a composer had nothing better to do than to scribble some ink on paper and wahh-LA, , a masterpiece.

The musical forms are inborn, before they arrive on this planet. Some carry this archetypal structures, others that type.
Some alter their ideas, shapes, forms, fabrics of a work,
Some composers draw froma few sources of creativity within/without, Others draw wider, deeper, broader, more,,epochial, more archetypal , greater Zeitgeist , than another contemporary. Some like Sibelius, Wagner, allow folk forms, Bartok, ravel as well. , to help allow these creative surges to find new forms in a contemporary , musical setting = classical instrumentations.

Pettersson's music captures some essence, microscopic/telescopic visionary , where time is kaput, broken down, extinguished. Beyond time, but never ever beyond this epoch, this archetypal situation mankind finds himself trapped and suffocating, with no hope , neither even a tiny SCINTILLA of a pin hole of light.
Beyond, hope, beyond despair, beyond himself, , and can not do what Joni Mitchell has sung so beautiful for us on solo piano, 1969, *We need to get back to the garden*. But how? has anyone actually been , seen that place?

Our great ancestor Adam, has not left us a road map.

can I now bring this back to Pettersson's and his music now?

I had hoped to stay away for some days/weeks, until I had something of descent value to add to your explosive testimony,,,,,something at least as interesting what you brought to the table.

It was your previous shorter post which allowed the flood gates to burst and there you have it.

If I don't click post NOW,,I may go back and edit, scratch , and who knows, delete the entire long winded, way off the beaten path from the sunbect at hand, Pettersson;'s unique timeless, overwhelming creative genius...If I know Allan Pettersson from what I've read,,he no doubt would quickly order his servants to end my visit, even before I got half way with this ,,,these far fetched , wild ideas.
I know Pettersson, he has *no time for such twaddle and inventive fantasia, cocky-pop*.

He was great man, not allowing for any such chat which would deter him from his creative mission. He was cast into a terrible grueling fate , fighting just to live, yet carrying his creative impulses to reach , not base camp, 1,2,3,, but all the way to Mt Everest, not once, but in his syms, 3,-15,,some include his 2nd sym,,which I will have to consider,,

How was all this energetic creativity possible under such tragic conditions?

No one knows, it will forever remain a mystery, and so we can only honor what he gave us , by sharing what we know to be a salvific music.

Only after we pass on, will we make the realization of just what Pettersson;'s music had upon our lives, its true value can only be partly known here. The greater realization yet awaits.
 
#141 ·
I note how often you write as arguing a case against some *collective opinionated group* mind set/collective unconscious AKA *The invisible censorship*, which I've also run across quite frenquently, here/there, yonder /the ubiquitous collective VETO, of any idea which they can not fit into THEIR AGENDA's standards.

You enjoy your freedom, inspite of , how the group wishes you would act.

ie, a strong aversion towards Pettersson,,,what does this negativity, shallow at times, which reflects more on their lack of discernment than any real understanding of what they ACTUALLY heard in Pettersson….., what does this shallow , biased opinion towards Pettersson, have to do with you?
"They" are the spirit-killers. :lol:
 
#144 ·
For new commers to Pettersson sound world.
Syms 2,3,4 can be considered on very long prologue.
The cycle I feel begins with his 5th, here Pettersson has finally found his voice, his ideas are now coming together.
5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15.
One is not greater than another. Don't listen to what you read , *oh I prefer sym x,,,or y,,,or z,,,,*.
If a certain sym does not click with you, move on, come back later,
Do not begin with the 7th.
Begin with the 5th, move on to the 6th, , skip the 7th, move to 8-15 in that order.


Now after the 15th, now go back to the 7th, as this sym will now be heard as the center piece to this cycle.
You are more prepared. Afterwards listen to the syms , in any order as you wish.
 
#153 ·
I'm still not quite sure what to make of it.
At least you feel something,,others, just like *huh? wel its OK, nothing really too interesting.....*.
I am still assessing my experiences in Henze.
Some hear one sym of Pettersson, and stop right there.
Which tells me Pettersson is meant only for certain people, Like Beethoven is music for certain people, and not for others.
This all has to do with Jung's book, Psychological Types.

The human personality makeup is a extremely complex thing, which is why we have so many divorces in marriages.

Why would music, great music that is, be a exception to this rule established by Jung.
Which is why the mods who set up TC, has provided us all with composer rooms.

If you don't care for a certain composer , just stay out of that room.
Here in the Pettersson's page, we actually are more forgiving and open hearted. We love to have new comers to Pettersson give us their opinions, and try to answer their Q's as best we can.

Perhaps we do proselytize a bit.
So feel free to jump into Pettersson's sym 8.
Get back with us.
 
#154 · (Edited)
I suggest that anyone new to Pettersson read this thread from the beginning and realize that no one is an expert on this talented but troubled composer. I doubt if some of the people here even understand the negation they’re promoting in a composer with barely a glimmer of light, peace, or serenity in his symphonies or in his violin concerto. The only question is why he took such a consistently bleak road without redemption or mercy despite being so talented as a great orchestrator. I heard no evidence of artistic or personal growth in any of his symphonies and I believe this message needs to be pointed out every now and then. I do not see him making it in the concert halls in acceptance or popularity, except on rare occasion with his 7th symphony and its few moments of calm and a brief cessation from his personal agony, stress, tension, compulsive activity, and his never-ending anguish. He wouldn’t listen to anybody and now his legacy has to live with the disappointing results. I question whether his work will ever have much in the way of universal appeal because it’s way too negative, a negation of the positive and the constructive... and it sounds like his agony-filed world was mostly self-created. I’ve heard a representative example of six of his symphonies (1,6,7,10,11,15) and his violin concerto to get the lay of the land, and that was more than enough because I couldn’t take it anymore and there was no aesthetic payoff or reward. None. Zero. Nein. Just a talented misdirected composer beating his head against the wall and probably blaming the world for his misery. Hinze and Schnittke are an entirely different matter and well worth hearing because of their emotional range and aesthetic rewards. But Pettersson? Never a laugh, not even the glimmer of a smile, even a grudging one, never the slightest ray of hope or a way out of his all-consuming misery. What about love, beauty, forgiveness and mercy?
 
#158 · (Edited)
I suggest that anyone new to Pettersson read this thread from the beginning and realize that no one is an expert on this talented but troubled composer. I doubt if some of the people here even understand the negation they're promoting in a composer with barely a glimmer of light, peace, or serenity in his symphonies or in his violin concerto. The only question is why he took such a consistently bleak road without redemption or mercy despite being so talented as a great orchestrator. I heard no evidence of artistic or personal growth in any of his symphonies and I believe this message needs to be pointed out every now and then. I do not see him making it in the concert halls in acceptance or popularity, except on rare occasion with his 7th symphony and its few moments of calm and a brief cessation from his personal agony, stress, tension, compulsive activity, and his never-ending anguish. He wouldn't listen to anybody and now his legacy has to live with the disappointing results. I question whether his work will ever have much in the way of universal appeal because it's way too negative, a negation of the positive and the constructive... and it sounds like his agony-filed world was mostly self-created. I've heard a representative example of six of his symphonies (1,6,7,10,11,15) and his violin concerto to get the lay of the land, and that was more than enough because I couldn't take it anymore and there was no aesthetic payoff or reward. None. Zero. Nein. Just a talented misdirected composer beating his head against the wall and probably blaming the world for his misery. Hinze and Schnittke are an entirely different matter and well worth hearing because of their emotional range and aesthetic rewards. But Pettersson? Never a laugh, not even the glimmer of a smile, even a grudging one, never the slightest ray of hope or a way out of his all-consuming misery. What about love, beauty, forgiveness and mercy?
You almost seem to suggest that you are talking to deaf ears, based on those experiences. Most of us know that feeling too, in matters of taste, cf. also many a discussion on TC ...

The 8th symphony is quite easy to digest and has quite simple, Bolero-like & repetitive ongoings, making it much 'easier listening' than say Mahler's 9th, or Shosty's 14th, IMO. The Vox Humana cantata also has a more simple expression. The long, simple ending in the 9th Symphony in the Comissiona recording reminds of an adagio by Mahler, or sections of calmness in Pettersson's own former 7th and 8th symphonies. As said regarding the 6th, I found the Trojahn and Lindberg recordings not sufficiently conveying the beauty in that work. Differences in recordings can be felt as particularly important as regards this composer.

The last half of the 2nd Violin Concerto in the Haendel recording shows the emergence and growth of a beautiful melody, but after a lot of stress and conflicts. The Barefoot Songs arranged for choir, also included on that Haendel CD, show him in a lyrical, folksy mood.

As said, he hated the self-pity label:"Someone once said that I compose out of self-pity. I have never pitied myself; I have never been able to cry. I know of pity for others, but not of self-pity. I find it difficult to hate people, but I do hate those who pity themselves. Self-pity is so damned unproductive. Do you think that I could have composed what I have composed, do you think that one can write a single note with life in it, if one sits there and pities oneself?" (a quote from the CPO liner notes to the 15th symphony).

IMO, there's a time for listening to Mozart, and there's a time for listening to Pettersson. They supplement each other. But a lot of self-complacency abounds in the classical music world, and it is good with artists who dare to represent different viewpoints, including any parallels with that of a Grosz, Michelangelo or Friedrich, to mention a few often 'grim', but painterly ones.
 
#155 · (Edited)
You see lark, We Petterssonians, know our composer, we know what he is speaking to US IN A VERY PERSONAL WAY. For the outsiders, sure EVERYTHING you just wrote is true true true. WE do not deny anything you just wrote, applies to those outside his music.

Same here with me, I have nothing to do with a entire host of very, expremely popular composers, past 200 years.
I deny them all. None will ever see play time on my CD player, Ain't gonna happen.
So we understand how/why Pettersson is considered as *unacceptable, even appalling, if not worthless trash* by The Outsiders,
It can not be any other way, it is FATE for you, The Outsiders, yet Pettersson is DESTINY for us.
Follow?
No , guess not as you have not read even 1 word of Plato, Nietzsche, nor Jung, perhaps a word or 2 of the bible.
The Outsiders are The Outsiders,
It is impossible for them to break into Petterssons music. Just as I could never, even bya act from God, transform mto a fan of,,,Beethoven. Never had in my 35 yrs

and never
will be
any interest developed
il my passing. I could name another 100 popular/famous composer for whom I have zero interest in.



This is the way music is. A composer music is for a certain personality. A certain conductor is for a certain personality.
It can not be any other way, Read your history , it is all
there, what I am saying
I wrote all this , just to be clear that I understand EXACTLY where you are coming from. Why in the universe would you expect me to love, cherish your favorite composers?
Ridiculous of me to even think your beloved, cherish composers will be even close to mine.
This is a impossibility,
Every member here on TC has completely, totally different range of music we follow, or better composers we love.
There in not any 2 people in the entire world, past, present, future who will have any list even close to one another, all will be very different.
You do not care for Pettersson, and most likely, a guarantee I do not like any of your favorite composers.


So we all know this after some 20 yrs of chatting on classical sites, Its old hat.
'Yet we choose to all get along like one big happy family.
No cussing, no bickering, no spit balls at any composer.
There music stands for what it is.


So we all speak in personal opinions.
and if decide to bring up testimonies such as Horowitz, when he unequivocally says, , when asked *Mozart is my fav composer, he is the greatest*.

It is nothing more than a testimony which backs our personal beliefs, and we feel good, Especially when we know he did not say *Beethoven is the greatest, I love Beethoven much more than Mozart*.
He placed Mozart OVER and ABOVE Beethoven.


So if Pettersson is not your, or the entire universe , for that matter *cup of English tea*.


What is that to me, if I were the only one in the universe who loved Pettersson.

As I have stated , countless times on TC, the music of Pettersson is something I've been searching for since birth and will carry with me, after my passing.
His music is more than a part of my life, it is a major foundation to my sense of existence to being in this world. IOW w/o Pettersson;'s music this world would be even less of a
place I want to hang around.
Pettersson's music gives a tiny ray of light in a dark, cold, rotten stinkin world in which we live in
His music represents to me,a tiny voice against the big fat mouth of the Illuminati, with its roaring thunderous lies and garbage.
I could write another 1 T words, But why?
I think you get my message, my point.
 
#156 · (Edited)
“Pettersson's music gives a tiny ray of light in a dark, cold, rotten stinkin world in which we live in. His music represents to me, a tiny voice against the big fat mouth of the Illuminati, with its roaring thunderous lies and garbage.”

Well, that’s just it, isn’t it? Some never questioned whether it’s a lousy rotten stinking world. And when was the last time that the Illuminati interfered with your life or Pettersson’s life? Interject a wisdom into Petterson‘s music, but please don’t invoke the names of Plato, Nietzsche, or Jung, when their reality of existence was far more conscious and elevated than the outlook of this composer of negation who, according to you, represents some measure of light in a stinking rotten world that you think exists. What if you’re wrong? And to think that nothing good has ever happened to you is probably also a distortion of reality, a falsity and a gross misrepresentation of life as most people live it, who’ve experienced health, well being, love, relationships, life, inspiration, wisdom, a way out of their misery, enlightenment, and whose lives have been touched by the elusive Illuminati about as much as the man in the moon.

So what’s wrong with this picture? How about everything, including a lack of gratitude for the good that has happened in your life on rare occasions but probably discounted or ignored. It sounds like Pettersson may have completely missed the boat and his aesthetic of never-ending pain and anguish is probably the last thing a troubled world needs and yet is promoted as representing a ray of light in a rotten stinking world by those who may have never questioned his complete absence of hope that they’re actually hearing. He never seemed to learn anything and sounds completely terrified half the time by the malevolent forces that surround him and seems powerless to cope with. Most disappointing of all, I do not see him as a courageous man or composer, but just the opposite, and there’s no joy in saying it, only a sense of blessed relief that there are no more composers on the horizon who see the world as he did and painted pictures of it in the hope that they would be hung on the walls. What a bleak landscape for anyone to celebrate or revel in as if it represents victory in a troubled world.
 
#157 ·
lark,
a bit of a prophesy, you 'll never be initiated into Pettersson's music.
I just don't see it forthcoming any time soon,,,,,if ever.

But that's OK, as there are 1000's of other great composers to choose from.
Who really needs Petterssons music when there are 1000 great composers from the past 300 yrs tradition?
Pettersson will not in 100, 200, , nor ever, become popular. This is a impossibility.

Popular as say Beethoven, was/is/forever will be, popular.
Beethoven will remain top 3 for at least another 500 to 1000 years, and Pettersson will remain obscure for at least another 100 years, After the 100 yr epoch, his star will slowly rise above the horizon. But a zenith?
Ain;'t gonna happen. He'll remain like the winter solstice , , 24 hour twilighted sun, just faintly giving rays over the shadowy horizon.

Whereas Beethoven is destined to thrill the masses til time is no more.

It can be no other way.
And I hope the Pettersson Project is reading my post, so at least they know, they gave their heart and soul, planted seeds on rocky, arid ground,,,only to see the tiny plants whither and perish yrs later.
So is the destitution of man.
Pessimist you tag me?
Go right ahead, I consider my self a realist. Why play stupid here. It is what IT,,,IS.
Yes If I could, I'd lock all Beethoven's works up in dungeon,,,and throw away the key...but really, what good what that do,,,how would this act, bring Pettersson's music forward?
Man has to change within, and what these changes bring,,,no one knows for sure.
But assuredly, Beethoven will remain as King, The Champ who enthralls the masses.
Such is mankind's ,,,fate.
He has no destiny.
 
#161 ·
I'm no shrinking violet with my taste in music nor have I lived a sheltered life and I often scoff at the way Lark hears bad things in newer music but.... I already commented on the 6th, it was ok... so my next stop was the 9th, last Thursday night, and I felt like Colonel Kurtz uttering his last words on earth, or someone being slowly tortured. Won't be going back to that one, there is simply too much good music out there that is fresh, new, and not depressing.

I admit there are elements of his music I like a lot, but they are not unique or exclusive to his music so I can find them elsewhere.
 
#164 · (Edited)
I reluctantly decided to hear Pettersson's 8th Symphony against my better judgment, and I'm glad that I did. I thought it was outstanding! Either his demons and apparitions were leaving him alone or he was fully in control of them. I kept waiting for him to ruin it with excessive tension, crisis and anxiety but he didn't and much of it has a beautiful serenity and sense of landscape. Whatever unusual dimension he's in, one that I've never heard portrayed in sound before, he's expressing the better side of it. Some of his lines and textures and orchestrations were also outstanding - full of character and originality. The Symphony shows an entirely different side of him, his better side, in my opinion, and why the 8th isn"t recommended right off the bat as a starting point to appreciate him at his more constructive best is beyond me. Instead, listeners have to jump through hoops to arrive here... The 8th also impressed me as being somewhat Mahleresque, in a good way. It was also free of the overriding sense of constant pain and anguish that I feel are so much a part of so many of his others symphonies - and I still feel the same way about the dark, stressed-out character of those others. But here? Just magical and beautiful with just enough contrast to keep it interesting. Truly one of the best 20th-century symphonies I've heard and I wouldn't mind hearing it live in the concert hall because this one has a chance to live. I believe it would be an overwhelming experience and I hope others have a chance to hear it:

 
#165 ·
Now I am so so glad (reference to Cream's 1969 hit I'm so Glad, I'm so Glad, I'm glad, I'm glad , I'm glad. ,,cool song).
Because I always felt the 8th, is perhaps his greatest symphony.
It is unique and special.
I's so glad to made the decision to venture into the Petterssons music, if only 1 last time.

And you know if that is the only sym you can find of interest, , that you can connect with, who's to tell you any different.
I am sure there are Mahlerists, Brucknerians, who only love 1 maybe 2 syms of the 2 great composers, and that's it.


I've come across many times Mahlerians, saying, *Oh yeah, I really love the such and such* movement from this or that sym..I mean, what happened with the other movements,,,*what is your best movement from any Mahler sym...*, and you will see the thread go on for 10 pages.
I mean, how can one splinter off parts and still love the whole?

I mean what do they do with the sections that are not so thrilled about?



I find the 8th intriguing, opening to closing notes. ..
btw that YT upload is the Comissiona/Baltimore is a interesting ~~interpretation~~~ it is quite different from either the Segerstam/Norropking and the CPO. These 2 are very similar compared to Comissiona
'
I will need more time to hear the Comissiona, as I have he BIS, CPO already locked in memory..I can not recall how the new BIS recording comes off with Lindberg/Norrpoking.


I think I will have to order the Comissiona Baltimore .
Thanks for bringing the record to my attention.

It is definitely different, and allowable.
btw, I havea friend, who wishes that you might want to try the 14th...he knows of this site and felt you would never ever come around to Pettersson, You see, , Pettersson has his surprises.
 
#166 ·
Now I am so so glad (reference to Cream's 1969 hit I'm so Glad, I'm so Glad, I'm glad, I'm glad , I'm glad. ,,cool song).
Great song, and you know what it's about? Emancipation!
"Tired of weeping, tired of moaning, tired of groaning for you....Don't know what to do, don't know what to do..."
 
#168 · (Edited)


If Pettersson is the spokesman for the underdog, then surely he would recognize blues music as being valid. You are in New Orleans, the very heart of the blues.
 
#169 ·
HA, all this time I thought the song was a Cream original.
Guess Peter Green as well, took some of his hits from Muddy Waters, John Lee Hooker and other blues giants.
amazing.

Well Memphis and Chicago also lay claim to the blues capital.
Austin Tx , has great blues with Austin City Limits.


so how to tie in Pettersson here,,,well although John Lee Hooker remained as a obscure artist most of his life,,it was at the very end of his life that he received recognition,,,and got to drive a ,,,,New Cadillac….his dream came true,.,,,,I suspect Pettersson's time is also coming....Great art is always ahead of its time. Always.
 
#170 · (Edited)
Peterson would have wanted a new Cadillac hearse...:lol: Speaking of death, I was listening to Symphony No. 8 (BIS, Segerstam) which seems like a two-part, hour-long 'meditation' in a minor key, and reading the liner notes, which mention that Symphony No. 7 is sometimes referred to as "The Suicide Symphony." Did you know this?

I wish I'd known it long ago, so I could have indulged my fascination with death. It would have been a good selling point for me.

In light of this, it's understandable that Catholics might not want to "submit" to Pettersson's dark spell.

It also highlights the fact that Americans are coarse and uncultured; if the teenagers had known about Pettersson, they wouldn't be wasting their time committing suicide to dreck like "Suicide Solution" by Ozzy Osbourne.

This Pettersson thread might be the perfect opportunity to explore "the darkness" in classical music, something I tried before without success (the thread was removed) in my thread "Ahh, the Darkness!"

Considering the fact that Pettersson wrote down ideas during his illness, on pieces of gauze and bandages, do you think his music represents Man's preoccupation with death (love/death, too), and represents his seeming destructive tendencies, such as the creation of hydrogen bombs, genocide, etc? We saw what Hitler's immediate reaction was: he prepared for suicide, a love/death with Eva Braun.
 
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#171 · (Edited)
I too, might have appreciated Pettersson more at 35 than 65, or at certain times in life I'd rather not relive. Darkness isn't so alluring to me anymore, and I seek illumination wherever I can find it. OTOH the kind of easy listening modern CM that sells more recordings doesn't attract me at all.

At this point in life my ears are quite flexible and my mind as well when it comes to music, and I've been a cherry picker for some time. Harvesting the best is hard work when one does it by listening and making subjective judgments. I don't even hope that my "best" will be anybody else's, and I've given up on converting anybody to anything I like. Either they do or they don't. Music opinion is like religious belief when it comes to sharing.

So I'll be giving #8 a chance soon... right now I'm digging on Saygun's quartet, every nice...
 
#172 · (Edited)
So, things are all going to get better from here on? That's an optimist. I agree that music is like religion; no use in trying to convert a Catholic to the darkness. Then, on the other hand, this duality makes them particularly vulnerable when the Devil comes knock-knock-knocking at their door. Haa haa ha! :devil:
 
#176 ·
So many rainbows, yet so much reductionism...

Yes, if I wanted to let negative feelings be amplified by music, now would be a good time to do that. I have plenty of reasons right now to get that way. If I spoke about them someone might say I'm a pessimist. There's really no difference except what I choose to reveal or not.
Ah, yes, and there's the crux: what one chooses to reveal! To be, or not to be. To deny, or not to deny; to live a fantasy, or live a reality. Somebody better call a doctor!!@!
 
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