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Lack of diversity on TC.

11K views 185 replies 56 participants last post by  Lenny 
#1 · (Edited)
I feel like there is a certain lack of diversity here on TC. Every other thread begins with "Which Beethoven symphony", "What Brahms masterpiece", "Your favorite...", "Best ___ composer"... it's a little sickening, to be honest. I'm not saying that I haven't contributed to this problem, but where are the lovers for other parts of classical music? ―it's all classical music. Forums like these have to be places for meaningful, thoughtful discussions that get you as passionate about composers as you were 20 or 30 years ago. I just don't feel this way. Moreover, I think that many users are a little stubborn, refusing to listen to other symphonies than Beethoven's 5th or Mahler's 9th. There are no tonalists and modernists ―there are only lovers of classical music. I think that everyone should have an equal balance of everything. Why not "The most stylistically advanced Rubbra symphony?", but no "I'm not familiar with Rubbra's work" option. Let them take a few weeks to listen, and come back to vote. So they will know how to have a "discussion" when someone else talks about nuances in the 6th; so they can contribute meaningfully. If there is an easy get-away, that user that isn't familiar with Rubbra will never get around to hear his symphonies, and thus will never get out of their little bubble of, say, Romantic music. All eras are equal, so all should be treated with the same importance. Users do so by listening to everything. Even if you don't like an atonal piece, it doesn't mean you don't like atonal music; it probably means that you don't have a taste for that composer. Don't be so quick to judge. If you say that you love classical music, it means that you can answer a question about Haydn's symphonies as easily as you can Schnittke's string trio.

Bleh. Now that I've succesfully barfed out all my grievances with TC, I think my bagel's ready.
 
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#7 · (Edited)
#9 ·
I'm not entirely sure what type of change you'd like to see on Talk Classical. Are you asking people to be respectful towards the musical tastes of other TC members? If this is what you're saying, then I strongly agree with you.

Or are you urging everyone to expand their own musical tastes? In that case, I must say that I disagree with you. Many TC members have a group of favorite composers who provide them with satisfying musical experiences. There's no good reason why they should be pressured to widen their musical horizons.
 
#13 ·
"...are you urging everyone to expand their own musical tastes? In that case, I must say that I disagree with you. Many TC members have a group of favorite composers who provide them with satisfying musical experiences. There's no good reason why they should be pressured to widen their musical horizons.
Agree entirely. There's plenty of diversity to explore on TC. If you don't see what you're looking for, you're certainly free to try to stimulate discussion relating to any of the broad topics herein that interest you.
 
#10 ·
I must admit that I have not the slightest interest in atonal to my ears it sounds terrible and I have tried listening to it but for me it is a waste of time, if you want that kind of discussion try another forum such as GMG etc which I visit now and again but getting less and less.
I agree that “which is your favourite 9th” etc is not very interesting but some people like to take part.
As far as composers that are seldom heard to day, well, let’s face it if people liked them they would be heard more often, so they just have not made the grade.
 
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#11 ·
There are many members on TC who collectively have very broad interests. If you search in Google for a composer on TC you'll almost always find a Composer Guestbook for that person. Further, you'll often find many other threads with entries including works or comments on that composer.

Of course it's nice to have a new thread or new posts discussing particular composers. There are a reasonable number of these, and as I mentioned, you can create more.
 
#12 ·
I feel like there is a certain lack of diversity here on TC. Every other thread begins with "Which Beethoven symphony", "What Brahms masterpiece", "Your favorite...", "Best ___ composer"... it's a little sickening, to be honest. I'm not saying that I haven't contributed to this problem, but where are the lovers for other parts of classical music? ―it's all classical music. Forums like these have to be places for meaningful, thoughtful discussions that get you as passionate about composers as you were 20 or 30 years ago. I just don't feel this way. Moreover, I think that many users are a little stubborn, refusing to listen to other symphonies than Beethoven's 5th or Mahler's 9th. There are no tonalists and modernists ―there are only lovers of classical music. I think that everyone should have an equal balance of everything.
When it comes to music, I think that it's best for each person to do whatever he/she wants to do. You're sounding like a globalist.
 
#14 ·
That is part of the reason I'm barely bother with classical forums, the lack of diversity I find boring..a snooze. Maybe if there was more equal discussion, it would be more of an appealing prospect to the younger kids and to the established fans of this music. Why would someone choose to be in such a heavily discriminating environment? Plus the language censorship prevents me from speaking my mind at those particular members who try to impose their egotistical opinions on others.

It would be nice but it's far from reality, it's a pipe dream. Expect TC to always be 99% about Classical, romantic and Baroque music, then you won't get your feelings crushed.
 
#16 ·
I tend to use TC for the threads that interest me. I like talking on Beethoven and Bach (amongst others) threads but 20th century and atonal/modern music doesn't interest me much and I don't know very much about it, hence why I stay away from those threads. You can make want you want from TC. Start some threads about your favourites, I don't see anything wrong in that.
 
#21 · (Edited)
Why not "The most stylistically advanced Rubbra symphony?", but no "I'm not familiar with Rubbra's work" option. Let them take a few weeks to listen, and come back to vote. So they will know how to have a "discussion" when someone else talks about nuances in the 6th; so they can contribute meaningfully. If there is an easy get-away, that user that isn't familiar with Rubbra will never get around to hear his symphonies, and thus will never get out of their little bubble of, say, Romantic music. All eras are equal, so all should be treated with the same importance. Users do so by listening to everything. Even if you don't like an atonal piece, it doesn't mean you don't like atonal music; it probably means that you don't have a taste for that composer. Don't be so quick to judge. If you say that you love classical music, it means that you can answer a question about Haydn's symphonies as easily as you can Schnittke's string trio.
I don't know Rubbra's music at all, so I would indeed benefit from an extensive discussion of its merits and highlights. But the main reason I haven't heard Rubbra isn't because of disrespect or living in a bubble: I'm busy listening to tons of other music I haven't heard yet.
Undoubtedly there are many people who are content to listen only to the standard core repertoire, or just a small number of composers. I'm not one of them, but I have no problem with that attitude and don't see why they should feel bad about it.

Hey, maybe this would be a great opportunity for me to plug my composer polls, where TC members can show off their interest (or otherwise!) in hundreds of composers...
 
#29 ·
Hey, maybe this would be a great opportunity for me to plug my composer polls, where TC members can show off their interest (or otherwise!) in hundreds of composers...
I thought you had planned to finish all this well before now. I've had a look at the top 50 "leader board" and it contains a few weird-looking results in comparison with more conventional composer ranking procedures. No doubt you'll have a suitable explanation for these, or possibly may apply some "adjustments". Can't wait to learn more.
 
#22 · (Edited)
I find PLENTY of diversity on TC, by the way.

To love classical music doesn't mean one needs an encyclopedic knowledge of every composer from every period of time.

One can simply love Bach to the exclusion of all other composers and be considered a passionate lover of classical music, IMO.
 
#27 ·
One can simply love Bach to the exclusion of all other composers and be considered a passionate lover of classical music, IMO.
Indeed. And to such people, it would be far more useful to say "You love Bach? I think you will also enjoy Rameau and Handel" than say, "All eras are equal, so you must go listen to Glass and Xenakis".
 
#23 ·
"Classical" music is a very broad topic, with a LOT of works. Where do you start it? The Medieval period? Renaissance? Regardless, you are talking about an incredibly vast and incredibly diverse field. It is almost as nonsensical as saying that if you claim to like rock music, then you must acquaint yourself with all of the subgenres - hard rock, fusion, metal, death metal, dark metal, etc. That is absurd. Except for those who are in it for the academic nature of it, there is no reason why anybody should have to be acquainted with all of it. I listen to classical music because I enjoy listening to classical music. And so, if there is something I don't enjoy, I don't listen. It is as simple as that. From time to time, I get adventurous and pick up a CD from the library that looks interesting. But I feel no obligation to do so.

You want a discussion of Rubbra? Start one. That is how this forum works. If someone isn't discussing already a topic you wish to discuss, you are welcome to start it. Do so. You will probably get people joining in. But don't expect everybody else here to have the same enthusiasms as you. It doesn't work that way. Even within a genre I like, I don't feel the need to sample every single composer who ever composed in that genre. I love the classical and romantic eras - but I generally avoid most operas, even though they were an important genre in those eras, because I don't enjoy opera. And there is nothing that says I have to.
 
#28 ·
Why would someone choose to be in such a heavily discriminating environment? Plus the language censorship prevents me from speaking my mind at those particular members who try to impose their egotistical opinions on others.
"Discriminating environment? "Egotistical opinions"?

Personally, I couldn't care less if nobody likes the music I love. Why do you?
 
#30 ·
There's plenty of diversity on this Board in terms of composer discussions. Possibly the OP has only looked at a few recent pages in this part of the Forum. He might try delving back a bit further, or using google to search for specific composers he is interested in that may have been discussed in the past.
 
#31 · (Edited)
If someone wants me to be excited about modern classical, it would be a good start if they show me THEIR enthusiasm. Or find a way to mutually connect.

"Dude, I saw you were listening to Beethoven's late string quartets AGAIN! You know, X Modern composer uses a similar technique in the first movement of his 5th string quartet too. You might want to check it out"

Instead of saying, Brahms and Beethoven, how boring, listen to X instead. If there is a common connecting thread or something else that can draw me in, I'd be more likely to want to try it out.
The notion that you NEED to put homework in to be a meaningful contributor to the forum, well I'll accept my mediocrity. My family and my work get the best of me. I like my TalkClassical friends, but you will all have to content yourselves with the scraps ;)

That said, since you singled out Rubra, tell you what. I'll give his sixth symphony a listen this week.
 
#38 ·
I agree that they're much less common and I can understand that for someone who doesn't like Romantic music or at least isn't as interested in it as modern music, it can be frustrating not being able to find common ground with others. But that's not the same as implying that people are "stuck" in eras. It's the language of accused closed-mindedness that bugs me.
 
#63 ·
Admittedly diversity is more readily attainable when forces that drive away minorities are better kept in check.

[Honestly I don't know that this is even a problem anymore, but only because the damage was already done]
Or perhaps because a tiny number of people who were breeding enmity defected to other fora?
 
#43 ·
These lesser known composers should be so thankful that I even spend time on their work. Because I think I could easily spend the rest of my whole life listening to my "preferred" composers (Händel, Beethoven, Mozart, Liszt, Debussy, Prokofiev, Shostakovich and some others) and still not having enough time to fully discover and appreciate their work. Sometimes I think I spend too much time on the lesser known composers because it's rare that they come even near the big guys.
 
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